Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Johnny Rotten]

Not for firing Treliving, but I think it’s time for his version of “throwing a stick over the boards”.

[Beninho]

Don’t worry guys, Zach smith to the rescue!

If this team is really imploding, Treliving May of made one of the worst trades in franchise history depending on what happens in the lottery. What a gong show

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

If the Flames continue to swap out GMs every 3-4 years they will also continue to be a middling team and organization.
We need some stability.
Every time we fire a guy we look back years later and say "hey that guy did some good things".
If you establish that a GM is only going to get a couple of years they are going to constantly make short-term moves. Why would they not? If they can't produce a winner RIGHT NOW they will be canned.
Stability and an allowance to see a vision through over the long term is what most great franchises have in common
And something this franchise hasn't had since Cliff Fletcher.
So no - let's PLEASE not fire the GM

Ok, let's play it your way.

How do you suggest the GM is held accountable?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Don’t worry guys, Zach smith to the rescue!

If this team is really imploding, Treliving May of made one of the worst trades in franchise history depending on what happens in the lottery. What a gong show

Again people need to be reminded that Hamonic wasn't a rental. IF the Flames miss the playoffs Hamonic is still here. And still has value.
It simply doesn't compare to
Joey Mullen for a 2nd
Doug Gilmour to Toronto
Robyn Regehr+2nd for Ales Kotalik and Chris Butler (then paying a 2nd to get rid of Kotalik)
Jay Bouwmeester for squat a late 1st and two nothing prospects despite having him signed for another year
Jiri hrdina for Jim Kyte
JS Giguere for a 2nd round pick
The Phaneuf deal
Marc Savard for Ruslan Zaineluen

The Hamonic deal may not be great but one of the worst? It simply doesn't stack up.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Ok, let's play it your way.

How do you suggest the GM is held accountable?

A proper evaluation of how they handle the assets in the organization including cap space.
- Trades made
- Free agents signed
- Contracts and value for those deals
- Drafting

The overall health of the franchise from both a record point of view and asset point of view - balancing short-term and long-term views.

Does the GM have a vision and execute to that? IF yes - then at some point it is up to the players.

Or we can simply fire him and bring in the next new guy because that's worked so well for the last 25 years.

[home_sweet_dome]

Every year he's handcuffed the team with bad coaches and/or bad goaltending.

You don't win in this league with bad coaching or bad goaltending. Period.

So as much as i do like a lot of the moves he's made, the bottom line is he's failed to give his team a legit chance each and every year he's been in charge.

You can't spell overrated without TRE.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

A proper evaluation of how they handle the assets in the organization including cap space.
- Trades made
- Free agents signed
- Contracts and value for those deals
- Drafting

The overall health of the franchise from both a record point of view and asset point of view - balancing short-term and long-term views.

Does the GM have a vision and execute to that? IF yes - then at some point it is up to the players.

Or we can simply fire him and bring in the next new guy because that's worked so well for the last 25 years.

You missed one

- Coaching staff they hired.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

A proper evaluation of how they handle the assets in the organization including cap space.
- Trades made
- Free agents signed
- Contracts and value for those deals
- Drafting

The overall health of the franchise from both a record point of view and asset point of view - balancing short-term and long-term views.

Does the GM have a vision and execute to that? IF yes - then at some point it is up to the players.

Or we can simply fire him and bring in the next new guy because that's worked so well for the last 25 years.

No. Absolutely not.

What you described is how you measure his plan for success.

Once you have a plan you hold a person accountable to that plan.

You don't want to see public pressure on him and you try to frame every attempt to hold him accountable to want him fired. You can do a great deal as an employer to hold an employee accountable without firing them.

So what is your suggestion on how to hold Treliving accountable for the current state of the team?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

No. Absolutely not.

What you described is how you measure his plan for success.

Once you have a plan you hold a person accountable to that plan.

You don't want to see public pressure on him and you try to frame every attempt to hold him accountable to want him fired. You can do a great deal as an employer to hold an employee accountable without firing them.

So what is your suggestion on how to hold Treliving accountable for the current state of the team?

I wouldn't hold my GM accountable to short-term losing streaks or winning streaks. That's my answer. I think doing so would be a poor way to manage an organization.

I would hold my GM accountable on the basis of longer term evaluations and measurements.

In my opinion any other approach would lead to premature firings and poor decision making.

I WOULD him accountable for the state of the entire organization and progress being made. And that is a very different thing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

You missed one

- Coaching staff they hired.

Yup that absolutely should be on the list. But a single item on that list.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I wouldn't hold my GM accountable to short-term losing streaks or winning streaks. That's my answer. I think doing so would be a poor way to manage an organization.

I would hold my GM accountable on the basis of longer term evaluations and measurements.

In my opinion any other approach would lead to premature firings and poor decision making.

I WOULD him accountable for the state of the entire organization and progress being made. And that is a very different thing.

So you would wait until the end of the season. Ok. That's fine if it's your opinion. And then do you push him to change coaches after the season? During the draft when we don't have a pick?

I would prefer to try and salvage the season through a coaching change. There are too many mistakes being repeated. Too many odd player utilizations. Too few mid-game adjustments when the team is on their heels.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Again people need to be reminded that Hamonic wasn't a rental. IF the Flames miss the playoffs Hamonic is still here. And still has value.
It simply doesn't compare to
Joey Mullen for a 2nd
Doug Gilmour to Toronto
Robyn Regehr+2nd for Ales Kotalik and Chris Butler (then paying a 2nd to get rid of Kotalik)
Jay Bouwmeester for squat a late 1st and two nothing prospects despite having him signed for another year
Jiri hrdina for Jim Kyte
JS Giguere for a 2nd round pick
The Phaneuf deal
Marc Savard for Ruslan Zaineluen

The Hamonic deal may not be great but one of the worst? It simply doesn't stack up.

If the Flames pick becomes a top 3 somehow it 100% does

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

So you would wait until the end of the season. Ok. That's fine if it's your opinion. And then do you push him to change coaches after the season? During the draft when we don't have a pick?

I would prefer to try and salvage the season through a coaching change. There are too many mistakes being repeated. Too many odd player utilizations. Too few mid-game adjustments when the team is on their heels.

I would not demand he make a coaching change mid-season. That's his call and if he's my guy I let him make it. If he wants to fire GG I support him. If he doesn't I support him. I may ask some pointed questions to understand were he is at and why but ultimately its his call.

If my boss demanded I fire someone on my team I didn't want to, I would quit. My team. My call. And if in the long run you think my calls are poor - fire me.

I'm not sure what you are looking for. I'm guessing you are hoping that King or Burke demands a change behind the bench?
I don't think that's a healthy way to manage an organization.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Beninho

If the Flames pick becomes a top 3 somehow it 100% does

No because that would largely come down to the luck of the ball and a scenario that would not have existed if the Flames had kept the pick and not traded for Hamonic. They may have still missed the playoffs but the odds and literal dropping of the balls would be different.
So no. That's not how you can evaluate this trade. You can evaluate it on the approximate value overall of a lottery pick I suppose but if the pick ends up #3 you cannot say they traded a 3rd overall pick for Hamonic. That would be tremendously flawed.

[Monahammer]

I think treliving is still, on balance, good for the team so far. That changes if he trades for Zack Smith or keeps gulutzan beyond this season.

[browna]

He had to determine in the next week or two how much he wants to add to this roster. And how fragile the team is after blowing lead after lead by said mental weakness.

If he's going to roll the dice with this coach, he should come out and emphatically say it and remove any doubt, becuase the coach heard the footsteps a month ago and put on his final stand with the stick throw. A month later and it's back to the way it was.

If he wants to make the coaching change, and get the right players to add at the deadline, he needs that coach in there for a few weeks to figure out who that coach wants.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Not for firing Treliving, but I think it’s time for his version of “throwing a stick over the boards”.

In early Feb last year, I believe he addressed the team as a whole - players and coaches, everyone.

He simply said that he was either going to be a potential seller or a potential buyer at the deadline, that where this team was after the next few weeks will dictate his actions. If they could prove they were worthy of still at least being in the race, he'd get them some help for hopefully a deep run. If not, he needed to recoup assets as best as he can in the face of a failed season.

Weeks later, the Flames were still right in the mix in the deadline and so he got us Stone, who was pretty important down the stretch and in the playoffs... even though we lost all 4.

[Strange Brew]

Absolutely no one is calling Hamonic a rental. Jesus, why do people keep bringing that up?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Absolutely no one is calling Hamonic a rental. Jesus, why do people keep bringing that up?

Because people keep on talking about how if they miss the playoffs this year it is a disaster trade.
And yet next year he will still be here (unless traded) as a top 4 dman.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Because people keep on talking about how if they miss the playoffs this year it is a disaster trade.
And yet next year he will still be here (unless traded) as a top 4 dman.

The value of those picks is a lot higher if they miss, especially if they miss badly. That’s why it’s so much worse. Plus there’s the debate of whether he makes the team much better.

I haven’t seen one person consider him a rental.