Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

If Ramo comes in and is a sold backup then i think Feaster wins that trade. We will find out soon.

Ramo's going to have to be more than a solid backup for a 2nd rounder for it to be a good trade. Joey MacDonald is a solid backup and the Flames got him off waivers. Considering teams generally get a more than solid goalie in return for second rounders. If he's anything less than a remarkable backup, it's a bad trade.

Considering also that the Cammalleri trade smacked of getting Iginla a linemate. Now that he's not here anymore, time is ticking on Cammalleri's time in Calgary. They will likely keep him because who else is going to score goals, but he'll be moved before the deadline.

All in all, not a good trade.

And now, back to draft discussion.

[djsFlames]

If Ramo turns into our next starting goaltender, you'll all be kissing Feaster's smelly feet.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Hudler: Good
Joey Mac: Good, both the original acquisition and the new contract.
Langkow for Stempniak: Good
Stempniak contract: Good

Baertschi: Good.
Cervenka: Good (It didn't cost us any assets).
Getting Sieloff: Good.

There is plenty of bad stuff Feaster has done, but he should be credited with some of the good moves.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dammage79

And I am sure people will come in and count the near misses against Feaster and company even though they didn't happen.

If you are trying to determine a GM/staff's ability to judge talent then I think those admitted targets like O'Reilly and Richards show their ability (or in those cases lack of ability) to judge talent and assess the team. Sure they didn't go through but they certainly show a lot about the GM who tried to make those moves and thought they would be good hockey moves.

[moon]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Baertschi: Good.
Cervenka: Good (It didn't cost us any assets).
Getting Sieloff: Good.

There is plenty of bad stuff Feaster has done, but he should be credited with some of the good moves.

Feaster is getting a ton of credit for guys who have done 0 and/or close to 0 in the NHL.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If Ramo turns into our next starting goaltender, you'll all be kissing Feaster's smelly feet.

You are 100% correct, I will be kissing his stinky toes if Ramo turns into the real deal.

Much like to this day I light a candle at my Kipprusafarian alter to Darryl Sutter.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by moon

If you are trying to determine a GM/staff's ability to judge talent then I think those admitted targets like O'Reilly and Richards show their ability (or in those cases lack of ability) to judge talent and assess the team. Sure they didn't go through but they certainly show a lot about the GM who tried to make those moves and thought they would be good hockey moves.

He targeted two good players in Richards and O'Reilly. The numbers and cost behind the attempt to make the acquisitions are what scared people. I would still love either player on the flames. But I end here because this is after all, a draft discussion thread.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Ramo's going to have to be more than a solid backup for a 2nd rounder for it to be a good trade. Joey MacDonald is a solid backup and the Flames got him off waivers. Considering teams generally get a more than solid goalie in return for second rounders. If he's anything less than a remarkable backup, it's a bad trade.

Considering also that the Cammalleri trade smacked of getting Iginla a linemate. Now that he's not here anymore, time is ticking on Cammalleri's time in Calgary. They will likely keep him because who else is going to score goals, but he'll be moved before the deadline.

All in all, not a good trade.

And now, back to draft discussion.

Still a good trade if we can flip Cammy for a 1st at the deadline. We dumped Bourque who would be toxic on our young team and likely a buyout candidate. It is not the slam dunk win I used to think it was though

[MissTeeks]

So, about that draft. Only 18 more days of waiting.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

So, about that draft. Only 18 more days of waiting.

Cp collectively bangs their heads on the wall in impatience.

[Redmonster]

Originally Posted by moon

Feaster is getting a ton of credit for guys who have done 0 and/or close to 0 in the NHL.

Where is this "ton of credit" exactly?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Redmonster

Where is this "ton of credit" exactly?

A lot of people give Feaster a mark for how much better our drafting is all the time actually. We need to wait to see if/how these guys pan out.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Ahem, DRAFT discussion?

Bah it's related - speaks to the confidence people feel in the people making the picks.

I think most of the "bad moves" have been of the smaller variety. I think the Regehr deal stinks, largely because of the decisions to include a 2nd to get Paul Byron. I think Regehr had far less value than anticipated, but Byron for a 2nd isn't good.

Beyond that stuff like the Anton deal, Modin, even Comeau is largely inconsequential to the team's short-term and long-term fortunes.

The most important moves made by this regime - recent drafts and the trading of Bouwmeester and Iginla are both far too early to judge. Those are what will eventually tell the tale though.

Right now the management hasn't done much damage to the organization but nor have they really improved things.

Perhaps the most important thing they did do though was to look longer-term.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

A lot of people give Feaster a mark for how much better our drafting is all the time actually. We need to wait to see if/how these guys pan out.

Agreed but early signs under this regime are better than early signs under the last regime.
Matt Pelech and Kris Chucko weren't making feel good about those picks 1 year later.

There's at least signs that they might have made some good picks in recent years. That wasn't the case under the past regime with some exceptions (Negrin looked like a great pick at one point for instance)

[puds]

To the people who don't think the Cammi for Borque trade was good. What do you think of these two points?

1. I would say Cammi will definitely garner a 1st at the next tradeline. 1st round pick > 2nd round pick.
2. Borque is signed until 2016 and dirty, injury prone, and has an inconsistent work ethic. His attitude always sucked and glad he isn't on our team anymore.

Regardless of how Ramo turns out we have already won the trade. Cammi + 1st in 2014 is better than Borque + 2nd in 2012. He has been a good player for us even if he is a little bit overpaid. He's put up a about .7 PPG since coming to Calgary and brings a good compete level night in and night out (something that can't be said about every player on our team).

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Agreed but early signs under this regime are better than early signs under the last regime.
Matt Pelech and Kris Chucko weren't making feel good about those picks 1 year later.

There's at least signs that they might have made some good picks in recent years. That wasn't the case under the past regime with some exceptions (Negrin looked like a great pick at one point for instance)

Maybe with those 2, but...

2004 - Boyd looked good very early on (1st line on the WJC), and Adam Pardy was Tod Button's dark horse favourite. IIRC Aki Seitsonen was looking like a pretty good 3rd round pick.

2005 - a lot of excitement around Dan Ryder as he could be Calgary's best prospect. Matt Keetley was looking great as well.

2006 - John Armstrong with a little bit of attention that he could be NHL ready very soon, and there was a lot of pre-season love for Per Johnsson.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Redmonster

Where is this "ton of credit" exactly?

In this thread he has got credit for Horak and Baertschi who fit the little at the NHL level. Seiloff was quoted as a positive in the post I quoted and has done zero at the NHL level. The drafting overall is given a lot of credit with only Sven and his ~20 games having actually played at the NHL level. And Ramo who has proven 0 (or actually less than 0 with his TB time) at the NHL level is credited as a great move.

Comeau for a 5th which is nothing as of now another example people have used as a good move.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Maybe with those 2, but...

2004 - Boyd looked good very early on (1st line on the WJC), and Adam Pardy was Tod Button's dark horse favourite. IIRC Aki Seitsonen was looking like a pretty good 3rd round pick.

2005 - a lot of excitement around Dan Ryder as he could be Calgary's best prospect. Matt Keetley was looking great as well.

2006 - John Armstrong with a little bit of attention that he could be NHL ready very soon, and there was a lot of pre-season love for Per Johnsson.

Yeah those are good examples. I was one of those giving Johnsson some lovin'. He looked great at the dev camp.

Flames also had some bad luck
- Chuck concussions
- Pelech ongoing serious injuries during key development years
- Dan Ryder being a loon
- death of Mickey Renaud

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by moon

In this thread he has got credit for Horak and Baertschi who fit the little at the NHL level. Seiloff was quoted as a positive in the post I quoted and has done zero at the NHL level. The drafting overall is given a lot of credit with only Sven and his ~20 games having actually played at the NHL level. And Ramo who has proven 0 (or actually less than 0 with his TB time) at the NHL level is credited as a great move.

Comeau for a 5th which is nothing as of now another example people have used as a good move.

If Modin for a 7th is a bad move then Comeau for a 5th is a good one.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Right now the management hasn't done much damage to the organization but nor have they really improved things.

The moves may not have done much damage but the lack of moves and holding on to guys for way too long certainly has done a lot of damage. Also the two big misses that were only misses because of others and not them would have done damage to this team and that is hard to ignore.