Brad Treliving needs to go

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

one, don't be an ass

Wrap your head around how likely it is that Eichel doesn't play until game one of the playoffs and is immediately a top player after two years off and spine surgery. Vegas isn't even cap compliant without Eichel and their other guys back. Playoffs won't be as easy as you think.

Also,
Flames are 6-1-2 because they play in the pacific and its soft? That's odd since they have beaten 6 teams not in the division

Oilers beat Vegas

One, I apologize for my surliness because I am drunk.

Two, I am drunk because I am upset that once again my favourite team has lost out on a player that I fear will haunt us for the next half decade because his team found a way to cheat the salary cap, and the NHL is allowing it. I want my team to win, but they literally now have several of the best players in the NHL standing in their way, and are facing a very near exodus of that which keeps them afloat even in that context. My faith in this team’s chances of becoming relevant in my lifetime is extremely low.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Patches has been one of their best players...you act like they won't even miss him

Okay, so they trade Marchessault.

I’m not their GM. I’m just not seeing where the situation is particularly dire for them.

Like, take us. We might not have Gaudreau, Lindholm, or Tkachuk in 24 months.

Vegas is going to have everyone they want to keep.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Okay, so they trade Marchessault.



I’m not their GM. I’m just not seeing where the situation is particularly dire for them.



Like, take us. We might not have Gaudreau, Lindholm, or Tkachuk in 24 months.



Vegas is going to have everyone they want to keep.

Not to nitpick but we have Lindholm until after the 23/24 season. But we may not have Johnny in 6 months.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by chedder

Not to nitpick but we have Lindholm until after the 23/24 season. But we may not have Johnny in 6 months.

If we lose Johnny and Tkachuk, I would hope the team sees the writing on the wall and tries to recoup some value from Lindholm via trade.

Letting him play out his deal would be on brand, though.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If we lose Johnny and Tkachuk, I would hope the team sees the writing on the wall and tries to recoup some value from Lindholm via trade.



Letting him play out his deal would be on brand, though.

Ah. I get ya. And I agree. If all of the above happens that will likely seal my decision to cease being a season ticket holder unless there are significant returns which I won't be holding my breath for.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If we lose Johnny and Tkachuk, I would hope the team sees the writing on the wall and tries to recoup some value from Lindholm via trade.



Letting him play out his deal would be on brand, though.

Lindholm will become a 50 point player once Gaudreau leaves. I'm not sure management is smart enough to see that though.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Reilly Smith is a UFA this year: -$5M

Patches has one year after this one at $7M - trade him with some modest retention and recoup some picks.

Dadonov is only on a 2 year deal - you can find someone to take him at 1 year $5M.

That’s $15-17M in money gone right there.

None of those players are essential - they’re luxuries.

The core of Eichel, Stone, Karlsson, Marchessault, Pietrangelo, Theodore, and Lehner is locked up, and you build around that for the next five years.

You don’t lose paying for talent. You lose paying replacement players $5.75M or $4.25M with term.

And they still get to make their “$18M over the cap” run this year.

Losing Smith, Patches (with 2 mil retained), and Dadonov actually only gives them an extra $10M in cap space, making for about $13M total going into next offseason (Smith being off the books is already calculated in their $2.5M cap space this offseason). Now, because you traded out Patches and Dadonov, the roster goes down to 9 players, so they need to sign 13 players for $13M, and within those 13 players for $13M they will be attempting to replace what Patches, Smith, Dadonov, and McNabb bring to the team.

Losing as many young players as they have and their upcoming first hurts that even more, of course. With Stone, March, Pietrangelo, Lehner, and Martinez all over 30 going into the next five years and so of those guys nearing 40 by the end of it, that’s a tight window with a rough cap position to manage it through.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Lindholm will become a 50 point player once Gaudreau leaves. I'm not sure management is smart enough to see that though.

I mean, that’s what he was before Gaudreau, so…

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Losing Smith, Patches (with 2 mil retained), and Dadonov actually only gives them an extra $10M in cap space, making for about $13M total going into next offseason (Smith being off the books is already calculated in their $2.5M cap space this offseason). Now, because you traded out Patches and Dadonov, the roster goes down to 9 players, so they need to sign 13 players for $13M, and within those 13 players for $13M they will be attempting to replace what Patches, Smith, Dadonov, and McNabb bring to the team.

Losing as many young players as they have and their upcoming first hurts that even more, of course. With Stone, March, Pietrangelo, Lehner, and Martinez all over 30 going into the next five years and so of those guys nearing 40 by the end of it, that’s a tight window with a rough cap position to manage it through.

Yep and that doesn't even factor where Eichel is at

Lets not forget an NHL team would rather trade him than let him get the surgery...sounds like mixed opinions from other teams

bottom line its not a slam dunk PPG center when he returns. Wouldn't be the first player to go downhill fast after a major surgery...save the I told you so's

Also, lets not argue about stuff that hasn't happened. If the Flames lose Gaudreau and Tkachuk for nothing feel free but complaining about stuff that hasn't happened is pointless.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Also, lets not argue about stuff that hasn't happened. If the Flames lose Gaudreau and Tkachuk for nothing feel free but complaining about stuff that hasn't happened is pointless.

Now, now. If people on CP couldn't complain about stuff that hasn't happened, you could host the whole board on a Commodore 64.

[dustygoon]

Tre usually does a presser after each July 1 UFA day and another one or two interviews by mid July before he heads off on vacation.

I don't recall much availability this past summer which made me think he had unfinished business.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Losing Smith, Patches (with 2 mil retained), and Dadonov actually only gives them an extra $10M in cap space, making for about $13M total going into next offseason (Smith being off the books is already calculated in their $2.5M cap space this offseason). Now, because you traded out Patches and Dadonov, the roster goes down to 9 players, so they need to sign 13 players for $13M, and within those 13 players for $13M they will be attempting to replace what Patches, Smith, Dadonov, and McNabb bring to the team.

Losing as many young players as they have and their upcoming first hurts that even more, of course. With Stone, March, Pietrangelo, Lehner, and Martinez all over 30 going into the next five years and so of those guys nearing 40 by the end of it, that’s a tight window with a rough cap position to manage it through.

The transformation of this Vegas franchise is an interesting one.

They made a Stanley Cup finals and had their best regular season finish in their inaugural season on the back of having some of the best depth in the league, and an entire roster working together to prove a point.

And they had a plethora of picks, and cap space to work with.

Now 5 seasons later they are the opposite.

Very top heavy with lots of big contracts, have moved out pretty much all picks/prospects, and little cap space to work with. And haven't reached the success of that first season again.

Karlsson, Smith, Marchessault, Theodore, McNabb, and Carrier are the only pieces from that initial 17-18 roster. Smith is gone for sure in the offseason, and potentially one of Karlsson, McNabb, or Marchessault will need to be moved to create more space this offseason as well.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Two, I am drunk because I am upset that once again my favourite team has lost out on a player that I fear will haunt us for the next half decade because his team found a way to cheat the salary cap, and the NHL is allowing it.

So, you want the NHL to retroactively do away with LTIR?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Losing Smith, Patches (with 2 mil retained), and Dadonov actually only gives them an extra $10M in cap space, making for about $13M total going into next offseason (Smith being off the books is already calculated in their $2.5M cap space this offseason). Now, because you traded out Patches and Dadonov, the roster goes down to 9 players, so they need to sign 13 players for $13M, and within those 13 players for $13M they will be attempting to replace what Patches, Smith, Dadonov, and McNabb bring to the team.

Losing as many young players as they have and their upcoming first hurts that even more, of course. With Stone, March, Pietrangelo, Lehner, and Martinez all over 30 going into the next five years and so of those guys nearing 40 by the end of it, that’s a tight window with a rough cap position to manage it through.

Look, I’m not saying it’s not a pickle.

But they have four core forwards, two core defensemen, and a goalie locked up for the foreseeable future. Philosophically, I don’t think you want your core to be larger than four forwards and two D anyway.

In a do or die, tie it up or go home scenario, you can only have 6 guys on the ice anyway. And nobody but Brent Sutter would try 3F 3D with the goalie out.

So it makes more sense to spend your resources on the 4th forward. They play closer to the net and might actually score the goal to keep you alive - Eichel, Stone, Karlsson, Patches, Pietrangelo, and Theodore is a frightening task to defend in the last minute of a game.

Karlsson is the shortest, at 6 ft 1, and they’re all over 200lbs. That’s a lot of beef to look past if you’re an opposing goalie. All six are extremely high-skill players, they skate well, they can all score from distance.

All four forwards are 30-goal players.

Vegas will trade what they have to to make themselves compliant, and in doing so recoup some of the prospect capital they’ve lost in these deals. They knew that going in.

We would have had a variant of the same problem had Try Hard closed the deal, and it would have been a good problem to have.

Now, however, our big problem is the homegrown franchise player who drives the entire boat offensively is a UFA, and there have been no updates about an extension since the player said “I’m not commenting on it now that camp has started.”

And we haven’t even discussed how this debacle may have further alienated Tkachuk. “We talked, it’s cool.” Yeah, and my wife really isn’t mad about anything.

Great job, Try Hard.

[djsFlames]

Team needs that elite 1C
Team needs that elite 1C
Vegas was in love with Krebs and Tuch and we were at a disadvantage because of that
But team needs that elite 1C.

Its a failure by Brad, no way around that. These players just don't come around often. You don't even know when the next one will. You have to take advantage of it. Have to.

Super depressing to come up short after the past three months of hanging around it.

We're back to drafting and developing. And none of our center prospects have that kind of pedigree or upside.

We screwed the pooch here, and the cost is another stretch of years where we're looking at 1-2 rounds of playoffs at best.

Going the route of Arizona next year is now the only way to get this thing built right if Gaudreau doesn't re-sign.

Eichel was our chance to give our window a shot in the arm for the next 5 years. Now, unless Mangiapane/Dube/Zary/Pelletier/Coronato have elite top end in them (highly unlikely), we're only going to regress over time as the current group expires and leaves.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Lindholm will become a 50 point player once Gaudreau leaves. I'm not sure management is smart enough to see that though.

Oh, but you are smart enough to see that.

Whatever it is you pretend to do for a living must come with a pretty good salary because I think most GM’s are in the 7-digits. AGM’s and other execs probably well into the six digits,

You should get in there given that you are really really smart and all that.

[Vinny01]

I think we can look at many of the failed trades in the past 3 years and a lot of it points back at the Hamonic deal as it was so crippling. When you add the Lazar trade the flames went 3 years without a 2nd and failed to pick in the 1st when the pick was 12th overall.

The fact Hamonic turned out to be a complete dud of a player makes it up there with Sam Bennett not panning out as 2 of the critical blows of this rebuild. Without the picks and prospects the Flames had a hard time coming up with the necessary pieces to add Stone, Dubois, or Eichel.

The picks that were given up for Hamilton lead to Lindholm and Hanifin who are top line/top pair for this team. Hamonic did little while he was here and left for nothing. Not having those 3 young assets, specifically that 2018 1st likely made it tough for Brad to close any deal in the last 3 years.

Missing out on Eichel is such a failure in my opinion. This team went from 1st in the west to 8th in the west, to out of the playoffs. He still rides this same core and had a shot to get a player who could be a league MVP but disint have the pieces to pull it off.

Time for a new GM

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Oh, but you are smart enough to see that.



Whatever it is you pretend to do for a living must come with a pretty good salary because I think most GM’s are in the 7-digits. AGM’s and other execs probably well into the six digits,



You should get in there given that you are really really smart and all that.

The GMs are mostly an old boys club, promoted through cronyism. There are many here on CP that would be better than Treliving I have no doubt

Seems I struck a nerve lol. You sound like Brad's your dad or something lol. Sorry I insulted daddy haha

The fact that you see income as being a reflection of intelligence or capability is pretty telling though.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Oh, but you are smart enough to see that.

Whatever it is you pretend to do for a living must come with a pretty good salary because I think most GM’s are in the 7-digits. AGM’s and other execs probably well into the six digits,

You should get in there given that you are really really smart and all that.

Lindholm was a 45 point C/W before he got to play with Gaudreau.


He has a 54 point in 70 game season with Gaudreau.

I don’t think Johnny leaving turns him into Matt Stajan, but you’re certainly capping his production. Maybe it’s 60 points, maybe he does move mountains and get 70. I don’t think there’s much Dispute that Lindholm is a quality NHLer.

Losing Gaudreau caps the whole roster’s production, btw. Nobody should be arguing against that.

[Burning Beard]

Some people on here really come across as jerks. We are all fans of the same team. Does it make you feel like a bigger person to be a total jerk to another fan of the same team?