Zeitgeist, 9/11, and Other Conspiracies

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I'm not going through the thread to check, but maybe it was Tower. I dont recall bringing up aids at all.

I didn't read the article, word search didn't reveal HIV or AIDS, but with the name "secretive-rich-cabal-met-to-discuss-population-control" I'm guessing this is exactly the kind of garbage you spew and later duck.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

and this one is interesting.......why would these business guys be concerned about population control? Bill Gates was there along with Ted Turner, Rockefeller etc.
http://www.infowars.com/secretive-ri...ation-control/

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Evolution sure happens fast! Every year there are new killer bugs for us.
I am actually quite scared now, all these viruses everywhere mutating and jumping from species to species.........we are all going to die!

To give you an idea of evolution in viruses, the Aids virus changes so fast upon infection that your immune system can never keep up with the changes and can never clear your body of the viruses. One of the problems with developing a vaccine for the Aids virus is that it changes it surface protein structures so quickly that it doesn't match an introduced vaccine and your bodies natural antibodies don't recognize the changes viral coats in your body. And when you infect a new person, your practically introducing him to a new strain of the virus that constantly shifts with each generation. The insideous thing about the Aids virus is its a relatively slow killer which gives it a greater opportunity to spread. The problem (so to speak with the aids virus) is that its a fairly fragile virus that doesn't survive long outside of the body.

With Ebola, another virus it changes and mutates fairly rapidly as well. There was a theory that this virus which spreads through fluid transfer made the jump to an airborne contagien in one case which is truly terrifying. The problem with Ebola as an infectious agent is it has a short incubation period and its a tremendously effective and fast killer so the infections tend to burn out very quickly.

With Influenza viruses and cold viruses they mutate right from the first generation of infection and shift very rapidly. The reason why they're very effective is that they can transmit through the air and they have a long period of time before they show frank symptoms which means that upon infection your passing the bug before you even know that your sick. And again the virus that you infect someone with is slightly different or mutated from the one that you were infected with.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

To those commenting on the "value of a good education"...
Our education system does not teach kids to think, it prepares them for the work force, nothing more.

Wrong completely wrong. Education is there to give us a tool kit its up to the individual to use those tools. If you don't think that modern math courses or modern high school social history courses or biology courses or physics course or chemistry course don't teach you to think, then you really wasted your time in school. Did you have course options that taught you to get ready for the work force? Absolutely, in fact I went to a school that offered a dry cleaning management course. But schools biggest priority is to get you ready for post secondary education.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

If you guys want to believe that our institutions or the establishment has our best interests at heart, you are fools.......
The German people of WW2 era thought Hitler had their best interests in mind too.

Unfounded paranoia will destroy ya.

[mikey_the_redneck]

[quote=Gozer;1941522]I didn't read the article, word search didn't reveal HIV or AIDS, but with the name "secretive-rich-cabal-met-to-discuss-population-control" I'm guessing this is exactly the kind of garbage you spew and later duck.[/quote]

So where does it talk about aids and black people?

IT DOESNT!.........so quit throwing the accusations around.
You are not a good guesser.

[mikey_the_redneck]

One thing I just noticed in this thread is that there was a photo posted supposedly showing severe physical damage to WTC 7...........I can't find it now for some reason.
That was actually a photo of the Deutche Bank building, NOT WTC7.

That building is still standing and being repaired, while WTC7 had less damage, and completely collapsed in symmetrical fashion.

Not to mention the first responders talking about explosions in the basement lobby area of towers 1 and 2 shortly after the first plane hit.........but I guess firefighters are liars.

Also, apparently NORAD program should be ended because it failed miserably at defending NYC........they didnt even send a jet fighter up after the first plane hit??


I can't believe some of you don't even question the events of that day, and simply slam anyone who does question it as a whacko conspiracy theorist.........

[peter12]

NORAD was created to stop Soviet bombers from entering North American airspace, not for the purpose of tracking 3-4 airliners within one of the most busy air transportation corridors in the world.

[CaptainCrunch]

http://www.cracked.com/article_17469...ule-world.html

One of my favorite Cracked columns

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by peter12

NORAD was created to stop Soviet bombers from entering North American airspace, not for the purpose of tracking 3-4 airliners within one of the most busy air transportation corridors in the world.

You are mis-informed........it has been used for exactly that purpose.
The cold war has been over for years.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I can't believe some of you don't even question the events of that day, and simply slam anyone who does question it as a whacko conspiracy theorist.........

It's the open ended insinuations that get my goat.

If you gave me a plausible alternative regarding loud noises in a building that was just hit by a plane - I'd love to hear it. Instead it's "I guess firefighters are lying and you believe everything the media tells you" kinda crap.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

You are mis-informed........it has been used for exactly that purpose.
The cold war has been over for years.

Actually your mis-informed

Norad's mandate two fold, aerospace warning and control for America. Warning includes the assesment of missile and aircraft attacks on North American soil while control, which includes the capacity to engage intruders in combat, is confined by the NORAD agreement1 to air defence, specifically excluding missile defence.

Norad is far more concerned with tracking inbound missile threats and inbound bomber threats. Its irrelevant that the cold war was over, the mandate had not changed by 2001.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Gozer

It's the open ended insinuations that get my goat.

If you gave me a plausible alternative regarding loud noises in a building that was just hit by a plane - I'd love to hear it. Instead it's "I guess firefighters are lying and you believe everything the media tells you" kinda crap.

Well how do you get "explosions" at the base of a building where an attack was staged up at the 80th floor?

The firefighters even said ALL the windows in the lobby were blown out somehow. I remember the one fire fighter guessing the glass was 1 to 1 1/2" thick. How does that happen when a plane hits the 80th floor??

Another thing that is interesting to me was the massive girder that got launched into the side of the Fed-Ex building........how does that happen in a purely collapse situation....?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Actually your mis-informed

Norad's mandate two fold, aerospace warning and control for America. Warning includes the assesment of missile and aircraft attacks on North American soil while control, which includes the capacity to engage intruders in combat, is confined by the NORAD agreement1 to air defence, specifically excluding missile defence.

Norad is far more concerned with tracking inbound missile threats and inbound bomber threats. Its irrelevant that the cold war was over, the mandate had not changed by 2001.

I am not mis-informed...........here is a non-Alex Jones article talking about NORAD responsibilities.

http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com...-norad-on-9-11

Also, I made a post back in this thread showing an incident where a commercial plane was intercepted by NORAD. There was a famous golfer on board.

[photon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well how do you get "explosions" at the base of a building where an attack was staged up at the 80th floor?

The firefighters even said ALL the windows in the lobby were blown out somehow. I remember the one fire fighter guessing the glass was 1 to 1 1/2" thick. How does that happen when a plane hits the 80th floor??

Another thing that is interesting to me was the massive girder that got launched into the side of the Fed-Ex building........how does that happen in a purely collapse situation....?

Questions that you hear and/or make up that you don't have answers to aren't evidence of anything.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Also, I made a post back in this thread showing an incident where a commercial plane was intercepted by NORAD. There was a famous golfer on board.

Could you repost the link that supports that? Everything I found shows that NORAD didn't have anything to do with it and any suggestion that they did and that there were plans to shoot down the airplane are false.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well how do you get "explosions" at the base of a building where an attack was staged up at the 80th floor?

Occam's razor. Collision + explosion + gravity = loud noises.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The firefighters even said ALL the windows in the lobby were blown out somehow. I remember the one fire fighter guessing the glass was 1 to 1 1/2" thick. How does that happen when a plane hits the 80th floor??

I don't know, but I imagine it has something to do with air pressure or compromised structural integrity.

Give me a more plausible explanation.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Another thing that is interesting to me was the massive girder that got launched into the side of the Fed-Ex building........how does that happen in a purely collapse situation....?

A plane hit a building and part of the building came off?

You're not even trying here.

Successful troll is successful.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Could you repost the link that supports that? Everything I found shows that NORAD didn't have anything to do with it and any suggestion that they did and that there were plans to shoot down the airplane are false.

NORAD is atleast supposed to send up fighters to check out the situation, not to automatically shoot the planes down.

I dont want to search for the link, but I have a quote for you. It was from an interview with Jesse Ventura that I posted previously. It was a private jet, not a commercial flight.

Here it is.

Here is a quote;
FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR JESSE VENTURA: Well, you know... At first, again, I wanted to believe 9/11, you know. But the problem I have with 9/11 is just a real simple one. I'm trying to figure out -- and of course they're now attempting to answer it somewhat -- how we could have failed so miserably in not having air defense.
Because if you look back particulalrly -- I don't know if you're familiar -- remember Payne Stewart, the golfer?
LANGLEY: Yeah, that's been brought up a few times on this program...
GOV. VENTURA: He was flying in a private jet. And when they had that mechanical malfunction that apparently killed everyone on board, and the jet was up there flying on automatic pilot; well it only took them a matter of minutes to scramble a fighter jet and have it up there on the wing. And had Mr. Stewart's plane, if it looked like it was going to go down and hit a metropolitan area, of course they would blow it out of the air. But when they saw it was just going to land in a field in Nebraska [sic. - actually South Dakota], why they just let it go down and crash on its own.
And the problem I have with 9/11 is that. Where the heck was our defense? Who was sleeping at the wheel? While all of these planes... I mean, I've been to air traffic control when I was Governor, and you've got a dozen people there looking at these dials, watching every plane in their sector. They know where it's going and they know what direction it's supposed to be going
Now, how is it that these planes were able to be hijacked at half hour intervals, turned directly opposite the way they're supposed to be going and no bells went off, no emergency sirens went off, no fighter jets were scrambled? Just what the hell happened in that area of time?! And that's the part that troubles me about 9/11.
End quote.

[Thor]

Ack all these conspiracy theorists popping up lately. Reminds me of one of my best friends, he's always been one and besides being a good guy and otherwise intelligent, when it comes to ufos, jfk, 911, etc... he's a raging conspiracy theorist.

I used to try to show him why he's not thinking logically but eventually gave up, he has a perpensity to ignore evidence against his position and jump all over any hint of anectodal evidence or site numerous incredulous sources from bad books to hilariously bad websites.

To Mikey, Tower, and you other conspiracy theorists. I'm a skeptic, from a young age I look at events with a raised eyebrow. I have read all the JFK, 9/11, Moon hoax arguments. I have also logically and skeptically dismissed the theories or for parts I cannot explain away I do not accept that absense of evidence as evidence, which you folks are commonly doing.

Maybe we'll find a neurological reason to as why some people are so intrenched in this conspiracy stuff, it hints of some kind of imbalance in the brain.

Either way, after decades of listening to my friend, I know he's not gonna change his ways nor do I put in the effort of trying with him anymore.

I suspect the same is true here.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Occam's razor. Collision + explosion + gravity = loud noises.

Gozer, I am not trolling here.......

I cannot give you "more plausible" explanations, because KNOWONE has an explanation. That is the problem here.

Of course I don't know all the answers, but someone should be put under oath to actually ANSWER the HARD questions....not some silly commission report that didn't address half the stuff I have brought up.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I am not mis-informed...........here is a non-Alex Jones article talking about NORAD responsibilities.

http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com...-norad-on-9-11

Also, I made a post back in this thread showing an incident where a commercial plane was intercepted by NORAD. There was a famous golfer on board.

Seriously?

Its nice to try to compare an elegant theory based on the best of contingency plans to a real life chaotic system but that doesn't make it true.

And that site is about as much of a lunatic bin as infowars is.

[peter12]

How is Jesse Ventura a more credible source than the 9/11 Commission? This is hilarious.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Thor, this thread did not just "pop up" it has been around for awhile. I do not care about the moon landing thing, as it doesnt effect us either way.