Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

Wrong. Different Flames fans. And while Eichel is not by any means a horrible player, if he doesn't recover 100% after his surgery, that will be a horrible contract. ‘Elite top-10 talent’? ‘Best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years’? Bushwa.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Wrong. Different Flames fans. And while Eichel is not by any means a horrible player, if he doesn't recover 100% after his surgery, that will be a horrible contract. ‘Elite top-10 talent’? ‘Best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years’? Bushwa.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that Eichel has been recommended getting a Back fusion surgery. That is something ala Tiger Woods. He said he felt great after that procedure and he wishes he got it done much earlier in his career.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that Eichel has been recommended getting a Back fusion surgery. That is something ala Tiger Woods. He said he felt great after that procedure and he wishes he got it done much earlier in his career.

Tiger Woods never had to hit a golf ball while skating 40 klicks and trying to dodge five other guys who were trying to hit him. The two sports don't begin to be comparable.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that Eichel has been recommended getting a Back fusion surgery. That is something ala Tiger Woods. He said he felt great after that procedure and he wishes he got it done much earlier in his career.

Tiger also had a number of back surgeries after that initial one.

Fused spine surgery screams risk for a pro athlete.

I’d be more interested in Landeskog for that reason. Probably cheaper too.

[InternationalVillager]

Yeah - I dunno. I'm not a doctor by any means. Would leave that up to the Flames medical people.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Hmmmm I think you are being too binary in that.
I think most would agree i'm not Anti-BT and probably more often referred to as a BT Apologist.
And yet I see the value in really pressing on the acquisition opportunity that Eichel represents given his age and talent. Yes I get the risk.

Why?
Because I would rather this organization take the longer-view and do a proper rebuild but I don't see that being an even remote possibility.

So if you are going to try and win with this group - go and get a big upgrade.
Plus it would be fun.

You are correct. Too binary. But my intent was to clarify the dichotomy that AustinL had created.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

15-20 years ? Tyler Seguin, Mark Stone, Joe Thorton, Chris Pronger etc.
Hyperbole much? The only way that statement makes sense is if Eichel has yet to peak, but its more likely he is on an early decline.

Only one that holds water there is Thornton.

Tyler Seguin wasn't nearly as hyped as Eichel going into his respective draft (yes, I remember the Taylor vs Tyler debates and that he was quite hyped, but not on the same level as Eichel) or as good as Eichel at the time of his trade.

Mark Stone, who I think is arguably the best RW in the game, was 26 and a pending UFA. Also don't think he's on the same level as Eichel when he's at his best.

Pronger was over 30.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They could become the next Buffalo! What a wonderful change that would be!

That's what they said about ROR

[Sec214]

Eichels team is over playing the injury and Buffalo knows it doesn't need surgery. JE just really wants out of Buffalo.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

My opinion on acquiring Eichel has been the same from the outset.

If there is a transaction in which you overpay, it is to acquire a player like Jack Eichel.

Atleast the overpayment in this transaction has the chance of being recouped by the player. If Eichel produces at an elite 1C level, pretty sure people would forget the cost paid to acquire him.

Exactly. If there's one time to overpay, it's for a player of Jack Eichel's caliber.

It is incredibly rare to have a player of his talent level, at his age, to be available for trade.

He would instantly become the Flames' best C since Nieuwendyk.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Yeah - I dunno. I'm not a doctor by any means. Would leave that up to the Flames medical people.

But, but the internet..

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

That's what they said about ROR

ROR didn't get traded for Tkachuk + an unprotected 1st + a young defenceman + other pieces + the kitchen sink + the mortgage to the family farm. And he wasn't coming off a career-threatening injury followed by a risky surgery. And he wasn't making an eight-figure salary.

[InternationalVillager]

I want to put some things into perspective for some people.

Jack Eichel has been pretty much point per game in Buffalo with ZERO help. Put Connor McDavid in the same position and I doubt you would see that guy putting up 100+ point seasons.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Eichels team is over playing the injury and Buffalo knows it doesn't need surgery. JE just really wants out of Buffalo.

Why would Buffalo overplay the injury, doing so would significantly impact the return on Eichel…..

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Eichels team is over playing the injury and Buffalo knows it doesn't need surgery. JE just really wants out of Buffalo.

Can’t recall what podcast I had heard this on, but there is belief out there that Eichel’s camp is using the injury and their ‘preferred treatment’ as leverage to get out of Buffalo.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Can’t recall what podcast I had heard this on, but there is belief out there that Eichel’s camp is using the injury and their ‘preferred treatment’ as leverage to get out of Buffalo.

Fair enough, would need Calgary medical team to assess in any trade.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Tiger also had a number of back surgeries after that initial one.

Fused spine surgery screams risk for a pro athlete.

I’d be more interested in Landeskog for that reason. Probably cheaper too.

The surgeries being discussed are pretty much the same, except that the one the Sabres want, and most teams are recommending, are for the fusion aspect where they graft a small piece of bone to connect the two vertebrae. The benefit is more strength and less potential for the artificial disk wearing out, requiring addition surgery down the line.

What is most interesting, based on the studies I've read, is neither is a guarantee to resolve any existing pain, and the failure rates in this regard are very similar (26%). What the one surgery does, the one Eichel wants, is that it provides for greater mobility in the neck. The risk of complications is similar, as is the potential for failure, but the individual maintains greater mobility at the risk of requiring further replacement surgery. Studies are based on two year and five year success factors, and the five year being slightly worse than the two year. Again, these are studies of people engaging in normal lifestyles, not performance athletes who deal with events that place irregular stress on the repaired areas.

I'm not sure using Payton Manning and suggest he is a good example of the long-term success of this surgery is a good idea. He retired just after the first measurement window and well before the second, so we really don't have enough information as to whether he recovered as expected, or just pulled the plug when he knew he was in the window for a possible decline of the benefit of the surgery.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Fair enough, would need Calgary medical team to assess in any trade.

As I’m sure they would.

I think one of the comments made was ‘don’t be surprised if Eichel gets traded and a week later says he’s going to rehab the injury’

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I want to put some things into perspective for some people.

Jack Eichel has been pretty much point per game in Buffalo with ZERO help. Put Connor McDavid in the same position and I doubt you would see that guy putting up 100+ point seasons.

Outside of Draisaitl, McDavid has help lol?

[Saqe]

Didn't Eichel play with Reinhart? I wouldn't call that "no help"