Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_50

"After undergoing neck surgery that sidelined him for the 2011 season, Manning was released by the Colts and signed with the Broncos. Serving as the Broncos' starting quarterback from 2012 to 2015, he helped them clinch the AFC West each season and reach two Super Bowls. Manning's career ended with a victory in Super Bowl 50, making him the first starting quarterback to win the Super Bowl for more than one franchise."
By QB Rating he had his 2nd, 3rd, and 5th best seasons after the injury and surgery. Maybe not the best comparison.

I watch NFL football and watched Manning a lot…… Denver could have won the Super bowl if I played QB. He was throwing wounded ducks the entire time….it was bad. Denver was that good.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by _Q_

What makes you think he won't play in Calgary?

His development path. He chose to go with the USNDT and college route rather than go to junior where he would face better competition and prove himself against his peers. He did everything he could to stay in the United States rather than play in a league that is predominantly based in Canada. For a hyped player like that, it was a risky decision.

[AustinL_NHL]

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

Summed it up perfectly on here Hahaha.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

If we spend big assets on Eichel and he can’t return to his self it significantly sets this franchise back, over a decade I would guess. Best case is he would be on LTIR. Worst case he plugs along at 50-60 pts.

If that's all Eichel can do from this point forward then yeah that sucks but at least you went for it, even if it turns out terrible. At least you can't say you didn't try your very best.

I mean this team has disappointed for the last quite a while anyway, so may as well swing big and hope it turns into gold.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

Funny and agreed.

Although I feel like there are two different camps of posters on here.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

15-20 years ? Tyler Seguin, Mark Stone, Joe Thorton, Chris Pronger etc.
Hyperbole much? The only way that statement makes sense is if Eichel has yet to peak, but its more likely he is on an early decline.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

Don’t think anyone is crapping on the idea of Eichel, I think the concern is that you can’t pay the same price for him you would pay if he was 100% healthy which is what Buffalo wants of course. The question is whether it is worth the risk or not, I think that’s healthy discussion.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

His development path. He chose to go with the USNDT and college route rather than go to junior where he would face better competition and prove himself against his peers. He did everything he could to stay in the United States rather than play in a league that is predominantly based in Canada. For a hyped player like that, it was a risky decision.

I think you are very badly under-rating the USNDT here. That was actually the most natural route for an American kid like Eichel to get to the NHL. Some US-born players will opt to play Canadian juniour, but I think more and more this is the exception, not the rule.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

You have to stay on your toes and think fast if you want to be out and against whatever the team is doing!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

15-20 years ? Tyler Seguin, Mark Stone, Joe Thorton, Chris Pronger etc.

Hyperbole much? The only way that statement makes sense is if Eichel has yet to peak, but its more likely he is on an early decline.

I don't see how you can make such an assertion. We simply have no way of knowing what is more or less likely.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I would just say that look at where being risk adverse has got this team. I would rather they roll the dice and see where they land with Eichel. At least it is something different than trotting out the same old core again and again.

Originally Posted by _Q_

I mean agree to disagree I guess. Keeping our middling players in order to continue this franchises decline into mediocrity is fine for some. Just sign a few more Colemans and Pitlicks for added depth and we should be good to go.

There is room in between 'overpay for Eichel' and 'do nothing and stick with current roster'

I am all for getting Eichel at a price that doesn't make us Edmonton with zero depth

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

Except you have that wrong. The ones whining about Treliving not doing anything are the ones pining over getting Eichel. The ones whining about Trelivings performance are focused on the larger picture and not one defining trade. Those posters are the ones who would prefer to keep all of our assets and build in an appropriate manner, achieving a strong team that will be good for years to come, not have a date with the Prom Queen and call it the highlight of our lives. The later are concerned about the long-term, while the former don't really care and only care about the next five minutes of their existence. One group wants Eichel at any cost, regardless of possible outcomes, while the other would only make the deal if it did not have potential to cripple the organization for the next decade. Those are two sides of this particular debate. Give me immediate gratification, regardless of the cost versus make sure we have long-term gratification covered in the deal.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except you have that wrong. The ones whining about Treliving not doing anything are the ones pining over getting Eichel. The ones whining about Trelivings performance are focused on the larger picture and not one defining trade. Those posters are the ones who would prefer to keep all of our assets and build in an appropriate manner, achieving a strong team that will be good for years to come, not have a date with the Prom Queen and call it the highlight of our lives. The later are concerned about the long-term, while the former don't really care and only care about the next five minutes of their existence. One group wants Eichel at any cost, regardless of possible outcomes, while the other would only make the deal if it did not have potential to cripple the organization for the next decade. Those are two sides of this particular debate. Give me immediate gratification, regardless of the cost versus make sure we have long-term gratification covered in the deal.

This….

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_50

"After undergoing neck surgery that sidelined him for the 2011 season, Manning was released by the Colts and signed with the Broncos. Serving as the Broncos' starting quarterback from 2012 to 2015, he helped them clinch the AFC West each season and reach two Super Bowls. Manning's career ended with a victory in Super Bowl 50, making him the first starting quarterback to win the Super Bowl for more than one franchise."
By QB Rating he had his 2nd, 3rd, and 5th best seasons after the injury and surgery. Maybe not the best comparison.

Well if Buffalo would release him, and allow us to sign him, then by all means, get it done!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Flames fans: Fire Treliving. Look at him just doing absolutely nothing while all these players are getting traded. Going to just go into the season with the exact same team next season, aren't we? God I hate this team. Forever stuck in mediocrity because they don't have elite talent.

*rumors that they're interested in an elite top 10 talent, and likely the best player available for trade in the last 15-20 years*

Same Flames fans: What the hell is Treliving thinking?? Eichel is garbage! And overrated. He's going to be forever injured! Are the Flames trying to become the new Buffalo? Unless we're getting him for nothing, that would be a horrible trade. Why would we want someone like him on our team? We don't want that horrible player here!

1) who said any of those things about Eichel?

2) who are these same fans that are saying both those things?

If you have to resort to making #### up, your point probably doesn't hold water

[howard_the_duck]

^^yeah I look at those as two different groups of fans, not one and the same.

[InternationalVillager]

My opinion on acquiring Eichel has been the same from the outset.

If there is a transaction in which you overpay, it is to acquire a player like Jack Eichel.

Atleast the overpayment in this transaction has the chance of being recouped by the player. If Eichel produces at an elite 1C level, pretty sure people would forget the cost paid to acquire him.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Don’t think anyone is crapping on the idea of Eichel, I think the concern is that you can’t pay the same price for him you would pay if he was 100% healthy which is what Buffalo wants of course. The question is whether it is worth the risk or not, I think that’s healthy discussion.

I think the juice is worth the squeeze
But I also just really wanted to use that phrase in this discussion.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except you have that wrong. The ones whining about Treliving not doing anything are the ones pining over getting Eichel. The ones whining about Trelivings performance are focused on the larger picture and not one defining trade. Those posters are the ones who would prefer to keep all of our assets and build in an appropriate manner, achieving a strong team that will be good for years to come, not have a date with the Prom Queen and call it the highlight of our lives. The later are concerned about the long-term, while the former don't really care and only care about the next five minutes of their existence. One group wants Eichel at any cost, regardless of possible outcomes, while the other would only make the deal if it did not have potential to cripple the organization for the next decade. Those are two sides of this particular debate. Give me immediate gratification, regardless of the cost versus make sure we have long-term gratification covered in the deal.

Hmmmm I think you are being too binary in that.
I think most would agree i'm not Anti-BT and probably more often referred to as a BT Apologist.
And yet I see the value in really pressing on the acquisition opportunity that Eichel represents given his age and talent. Yes I get the risk.

Why?
Because I would rather this organization take the longer-view and do a proper rebuild but I don't see that being an even remote possibility.

So if you are going to try and win with this group - go and get a big upgrade.
Plus it would be fun.