A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Hahah he was triggered by the painless deaths

It's tongue in cheek...

[SportsJunky]

I'd really like to see Tyrion or Arya on the throne at the end of this. Either one of them winning the game at the end would make me happy.

[nik-]

Also, Dragonstone is a way cooler looking throne room than the Iron Throne. Don't @ me.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Arya and The Hound - to me the map room scene was "tender". Here is this gruff man who swears a ton, been through hell and back, killed just for the hell of it, and he's holding her back. He's been her protector and surrogate father figure since they watched her father die. This was him, in that role, being completely honest with her. In the exchange she sees that he isn't just giving her a line, it's straight from the heart and it gets her. Her using his real name shows her1 appreciation.

I think that was Yoren of the Night's Watch that carried Arya to safety after the execution of her father. Points taken, though. Arya and The Hound were definitely bonded.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Apparently GRRM hated the episode and wrote a reply:

Spoiler!

When HBO continued forward with the show Game of Thrones after the point at which my books no longer continued, I did my best to provide guidance toward the ending I envisioned, but I knew they would have to take some creative liberties. The episode that aired tonight deviated from my vision too much to stay silent. I want to let it be known that in my original vision, Daenerys Targaryen burned many, MANY more innocent children than pictured on HBO's show and their deaths were all shown in excruciating detail.

I look forward to finishing my books and sharing this vision with the world.

George R.R. Martin

You've had time bro, too bad, so sad.

[AltaGuy]

Looking back through the thread, it's kind of amusing how many people were fine dispatching the NK so unceremoniously because the show had to get back to the "politics". Not a lot of politics in episode 5.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If you think this is the only reason she goes mad, you haven't been paying very much attention. She showed up in Westeros with 3 dragons and 2 massive armies. She was then convinced to not do what she wanted, take the Iron throne. This led to the loss of half her armies and 2 of her dragons. Varys betrayed her, Ser Jorah, the one person who truly loved her died, She can't trust her hand at all, and the man she thought loved her betrayed her the second after she begged him not to. She has lost everything, and was hearing the bells, realizing that it was probably another failure form Tyrion. She sees what is going on and decides the only solution is full destruction. She even said something similar earlier about starting from scratch. Her arc is one of the most complete on the show. Jon not kissing her probably wasn't even the proverbial straw.

If he kisses her, does she still commit genocide?

My answer would be "no".

I daresay, it's because I'm paying attention, that her actions seem so out of character to me (harumph).

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is that not the burning of the Tarleys, and the sudden need to go south with a weary army? These were clearly moments that gave Jon pause, and made him conflicted.

I would say those decisions were more akin with having to burn Cercei's meat shields. Dany made the choice to zig zag up and down King's Landing killing as many as possible.

It would have been better of the writers:

1. Gave evidence of this next level maliciousness or insanity along the way; or
2. Gave at least some motivation for why Dany would hate the average citizen of King's Landing. Perhaps she sees them as an elite that economically enslaves the rest of the world? Instead, the citizens were built up more as hostages of Cercei, and Dany just torched them without any reason.

All we really got was "people like Jon better than me" and "I don't like Cersei", so now everyone gets it. There's definitely a leap both logically and in terms of Dany's previous behaviour. Once again I chock this up to how weak episodes 1-4 were, and thought episode 5 was remarkable at accomplishing what it set out to do.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by blankall

I would say those decisions were more akin with having to burn Cercei's meat shields. Dany made the choice to zig zag up and down King's Landing killing as many as possible.

It would have been better of the writers:

1. Gave evidence of this next level maliciousness or insanity along the way; or
2. Gave at least some motivation for why Dany would hate the average citizen of King's Landing. Perhaps she sees them as an elite that economically enslaves the rest of the world? Instead, the citizens were built up more as hostages of Cercei, and Dany just torched them without any reason.

All we really got was "people like Jon better than me" and "I don't like Cersei", so now everyone gets it. There's definitely a leap both logically and in terms of Dany's previous behaviour. Once again I chock this up to how weak episodes 1-4 were, and thought episode 5 was remarkable at accomplishing what it set out to do.

I see it as a horribly failed character arc. Six and a half seasons of dothraki, unsullied, slaves, and witches over in Essos, and she just erupted into a good ole Mad Targ after a few key deaths and being spurned by her nephew.

There are two characters whose entire existence was devoted to growth - Jamie and Dany. Turns out both were the same people all the way along: static characters on a hamster wheel.

Both had their arcs rendered meaningless in episode 5.

[Ashasx]

Is Dany burning the Tarleys any different than Ned beheading the Night Watch soldier in episode 1?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is Dany burning the Tarleys any different that Ned beheading the Night Watch soldier in episode 1?

Ned and Dany both lost their heads tbf.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

I would say those decisions were more akin with having to burn Cercei's meat shields. Dany made the choice to zig zag up and down King's Landing killing as many as possible.

It would have been better of the writers:

1. Gave evidence of this next level maliciousness or insanity along the way; or
2. Gave at least some motivation for why Dany would hate the average citizen of King's Landing. Perhaps she sees them as an elite that economically enslaves the rest of the world? Instead, the citizens were built up more as hostages of Cercei, and Dany just torched them without any reason.

All we really got was "people like Jon better than me" and "I don't like Cersei", so now everyone gets it. There's definitely a leap both logically and in terms of Dany's previous behaviour. Once again I chock this up to how weak episodes 1-4 were, and thought episode 5 was remarkable at accomplishing what it set out to do.

Wasn't there a conversation where it was explained that the citizens had no choice but to support Cersei or die, and if Danny was the new leader they would support her, but Danny was fairly firm that they were guilty already?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

If he kisses her, does she still commit genocide?

My answer would be "no".

I daresay, it's because I'm paying attention, that her actions seem so out of character to me (harumph).

I guess, but it would have been out of character for Jon to do that given what he knows now. I suspect it would have delayed her turning, having at least someone close to her on her side. But given that Jon had already betrayed her, I don't think that kiss would have meant much either way in the long term.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It's tongue in cheek...

Well hopefully we get to read GRRM's true vision, including several hundred more pages of Momma Stark as the zombie cult leader.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is Dany burning the Tarleys any different than Ned beheading the Night Watch soldier in episode 1?

Yes. Different. Like you already pointed out.

Ned couldn't send him to the nights watch, because he was already a member of nights watch and abandoned his post. The penalty for deserting the nights watch is death.

Dany could have sent them to the wall, like was suggested by someone.

[kermitology]

I think this is a good alternative to how this all played out.

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-...his-1834720538

The more I think about it, the more I'm okay with a lot of what happened in the last episode. I do agree with the author of above that there was maybe a better way to get Daenerys to that breaking point.

The one thing that still bothers me is how much Arya managed to survive in that path of destruction. It was good to follow her through that, but maybe less of the everyone else dying except for her would have made things better.

[neo45]

Describing Euron as “the hand of the writers” is hilarious and accurate

Worst character the show ever had. His convenient wash up on shore and cheesy dying line moves him below the Sand Snakes for me

[burn_this_city]

She tried to send them to the wall and Randall refused since she wasn't his Queen.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

She tried to send them to the wall and Randall refused since she wasn't his Queen.

Username checks out.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by neo45

Describing Euron as “the hand of the writers” is hilarious and accurate

Worst character the show ever had. His convenient wash up on shore and cheesy dying line moves him below the Sand Snakes for me

His dying line proved to be false.