MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Two quick Google searches immediately came up with the answers. Full project scope page and articles detailing that the end date got pushed back a year.

But sure, corruption and hiding the facts, that's clearly what happened here.

Give me links? I couldn't find it, that's why I asked. I didn't bring up any of this corruption stuff. Fata you.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

The RFP for the event centre was Competitive - Open bid, so yes you did have a change to build and partake. Why didn't you submit a proposal?

I agree with this 100%... but just to play devil's advocate here on this particular one for the design RFP, the successful proponent was likely the preferred proponent ahead of time. The committee was enamoured with the arena in Detroit, so as long as that same proponent submitted a proposal and didn't badly screw up in the process, they were likely to win. 99.9% they knew who they wanted. I do a ton of RFPs and this happens more than you think.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Give me links? I couldn't find it, that's why I asked. I didn't bring up any of this corruption stuff. Fata you.

Why are you bugging out? It was clear he was responding to Curves’ weird-ass assertions of corruption. All you did was agree with it.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Muta

I agree with this 100%... but just to play devil's advocate here on this particular one for the design RFP, the successful proponent was likely the preferred proponent ahead of time. The committee was enamoured with the arena in Detroit, so as long as that same proponent submitted a proposal and didn't badly screw up in the process, they were likely to win. 99.9% they knew who they wanted. I do a ton of RFPs and this happens more than you think.

Who else designs arenas besides HOK. seems like they have the market pretty much to themselves

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

It's all in front of us if we are being open and honest about it. Did you, me, wealthy friends or family get a chance to build and partake in the new event center that is publicly owned? Why do the Flames ownership get first right of refusal on commercial development space? Why are they able to actually charge a ticket tax on a building they don't own, are you able to do that at other city properties?

How does a condo developer get exclusive access to build a hotel on city owned land without proper tender? https://news.calgarystampede.com/rel...-for-new-hotel

Pay attention to how many marque properties this company has and is able to bypass previously approved plans with an almost 100% success rate when it comes to amendments. X was sold to a community years ago but they will end up with Y as an approved development.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...omes-1.7443347

This game is played by countless companies and developers. Who do you think officials are going to shake down? Old ladies in Marda Loop? That who the developers shake down for corner lots cause they know most of the children with the inheritance probably will be itching for their share $700k.

After the developer pays that much for a teardown, they need to maximize size and units so they pay off to skirt the rules for a lot short by 2-3 feet. After building usually some visually nice units but horrible quality, the numbered company goes belly up so your average Joe can't come after them.

Literally textbook, just as the same playbook on getting taxpayers to fund arenas

I don’t think you understand the difference between corruption and legal contracts/agreement that you simply don’t like.

You need to provide some evidence of someone getting a briefcase full of money or really anything that is actual evidence of corruption before making that kind of allegation.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Who else designs arenas besides HOK. seems like they have the market pretty much to themselves

Populous, AECOM, Rossetti, NBBJ, Gensler, BIG, Manica, HKS, BIG, Zaha, there's many others... in addition to several Canadian firms that specialize in this stuff too.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Muta

Populous, AECOM, Rossetti, NBBJ, Gensler, BIG, Manica, HKS, BIG, Zaha... in addition to a plethora of Canadian firms that specialize in this stuff too.

But they didn’t even give Curves’ friend’s cousin who once built a lean-to a chance to bid! The corruption is real and in your face!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Wormius

But they didn’t even give Curves’ friend’s cousin who once built a lean-to a chance to bid! The corruption is real and in your face!

So obvious, really

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

But they didn’t even give Curves’ friend’s cousin who once built a lean-to a chance to bid! The corruption is real and in your face!

You actually can't be this naive when it comes to corruption and payoffs can you? Like actually? Try and maintain a little bit of an open mind. Not everything is corrupt and not everything is on the up. It's the way it works and when you know the people involved, it's an eye opener.


We literally have Fuzz in the AB Politics telling us about corruption within AHS and the UCP about selling off hospitals potentially. Do you think this is just all ideological driven and no payoff?

Look at something like the Calgary Arena deal, look just how much of a sweetheart of a deal that is for Flames ownership. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars in savings for them, is that not worth ANYTHING to the decision makers?

Perhaps for the AB politics thread but the AHS contracting scandal is actually a lot bigger than people think, a lot bigger. Say for example you effectively gifted close friends hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts, would you not ask for anything in return? People sign up for a new credit card and get enough welcome points for a short haul flight.

For the American politics thread, look at how open and honest Trump is with his corruption? People try to pass off billion dollar planes as gifts to the US Airforce, as if America is lacking in aircraft.

Some things as so plainly obvious when you know what is actually going on. Do you remember this little valuable piece of property?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...vote-1.7391848

Or this one?

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...er-2019-season

Our lovely civic government who's just SOOOOO astute with minimizing financial losses. Golf courses losing a few hundred thousand, pools requiring the unimaginable capital investment of $500k. Just making sure that every penny of taxpayer money is protected

Nothing to see here!

[PepsiFree]

Always fun watching the Dunning-Kruger effect on full display.

“Where’s your evidence of corruption in this specific issue?”
“My evidence… is that corruption exists… IN THE WORLD!”

No notes.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Some things as so plainly obvious when you know what is actually going on. Do you remember this little valuable piece of property?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...vote-1.7391848

Or this one?

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...er-2019-season

Our lovely civic government who's just SOOOOO astute with minimizing financial losses. Golf courses losing a few hundred thousand, pools requiring the unimaginable capital investment of $500k. Just making sure that every penny of taxpayer money is protected

Nothing to see here!

What are you trying to say here?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by curves2000

You actually can't be this naive when it comes to corruption and payoffs can you? Like actually? Try and maintain a little bit of an open mind. Not everything is corrupt and not everything is on the up. It's the way it works and when you know the people involved, it's an eye opener.


We literally have Fuzz in the AB Politics telling us about corruption within AHS and the UCP about selling off hospitals potentially. Do you think this is just all ideological driven and no payoff?

Look at something like the Calgary Arena deal, look just how much of a sweetheart of a deal that is for Flames ownership. Literally hundreds of millions of dollars in savings for them, is that not worth ANYTHING to the decision makers?

Perhaps for the AB politics thread but the AHS contracting scandal is actually a lot bigger than people think, a lot bigger. Say for example you effectively gifted close friends hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts, would you not ask for anything in return? People sign up for a new credit card and get enough welcome points for a short haul flight.

For the American politics thread, look at how open and honest Trump is with his corruption? People try to pass off billion dollar planes as gifts to the US Airforce, as if America is lacking in aircraft.

Some things as so plainly obvious when you know what is actually going on. Do you remember this little valuable piece of property?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...vote-1.7391848

Or this one?

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...er-2019-season

Our lovely civic government who's just SOOOOO astute with minimizing financial losses. Golf courses losing a few hundred thousand, pools requiring the unimaginable capital investment of $500k. Just making sure that every penny of taxpayer money is protected

Nothing to see here!

Corruption is more prevalent in prov/fed gov'ts because the approvals processes are quite different. Ministers have broader powers to approve things without passing through parliament. But there is also rigorous bureaucracy that generally keeps things in check. But of course its not perfect.

City councillors don't have much power to push things through individually under the table. Pretty much all transactions of significance come through council for a free and open vote. Administration can't do too much without council approval/direction. So you need 7-8 councillors to approve anything.


No idea what your point is on the pools and golf course. The golf course is being a free and open and accessible park. It's fair to debate whether that is better or worse than a pay to play amenity that is capacity capped and only open half the year. There is a related land sale at the corner of 33rd and Sarcee Rd that a lot of people are not happy about. Were 8 councillors bribed to approve it? I suppose it's possible...except there is typically a bidding process on any land sale, so there's gonna be another half-dozen people in admin to bribe. Again, no process is perfect; some weird things can slip through...like Cowboys paving over Millenium Park (though I actually think there might be a conspiracy there related to the new arena).

But most often its simply diverging priorities at play when these things happen. Councillors often prioritize things I think are stupid. whadyagonnado.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Always fun watching the Dunning-Kruger effect on full display.

“Where’s your evidence of corruption in this specific issue?”
“My evidence… is that corruption exists… IN THE WORLD!”

No notes.

Reading Curves’ wandering rants reminds me of the serial killer from Something about Mary.

“You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office....'Cause you're f--kin' fired!"

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Always fun watching the Dunning-Kruger effect on full display.

“Where’s your evidence of corruption in this specific issue?”
“My evidence… is that corruption exists… IN THE WORLD!”

No notes.

And as they climb the graph, the posts get longer

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Corruption is more prevalent in prov/fed gov'ts because the approvals processes are quite different. Ministers have broader powers to approve things without passing through parliament. But there is also rigorous bureaucracy that generally keeps things in check. But of course its not perfect.

City councillors don't have much power to push things through individually under the table. Pretty much all transactions of significance come through council for a free and open vote. Administration can't do too much without council approval/direction. So you need 7-8 councillors to approve anything.


No idea what your point is on the pools and golf course. The golf course is being a free and open and accessible park. It's fair to debate whether that is better or worse than a pay to play amenity that is capacity capped and only open half the year. There is a related land sale at the corner of 33rd and Sarcee Rd that a lot of people are not happy about. Were 8 councillors bribed to approve it? I suppose it's possible...except there is typically a bidding process on any land sale, so there's gonna be another half-dozen people in admin to bribe. Again, no process is perfect; some weird things can slip through...like Cowboys paving over Millenium Park (though I actually think there might be a conspiracy there related to the new arena).

But most often its simply diverging priorities at play when these things happen. Councillors often prioritize things I think are stupid. whadyagonnado.

The issue for things like the pool/rec center and a golf course is how you take public property or spaces and privatize them for private profit. I am a capitalist so this isn't an anti development/ profit mentality. But it's definitely clear more is going on behind the scenes then the city just worrying about saving a few dollars on some capital and operating expenses on.

The specific area in question for the golf course was sold for an asking price of $12 million but it doesn't appear that the final price is available. If my memory serves me correct, it's a space that can have approx 400 units of housing, for $12 mil? Seems light doesn't? In Marda Loop basic corner lots where 3-4 row homes would go for well over $1 mil and exceed $1.5 without batting an eye. Literally developers begging sellers and waiting for old ladies to die.

If you drive around that area you see insane levels of development and growth but you also see the cheapest garbage known to man being built there with significant costs being dropped onto future taxpayers. Lack of parking options, lack of storage spaces, lack of proper green/blue/black cart space. Back alleys littered with an insane amount of carts. Huge multi floor complexes being built out of wood, right up against older homes. The kicker is that non of this garbage is cheap, it's actually insanely priced for what your getting and developers are making an absolute fortune for selling HUGE future liabilities to people with this shaddy crap where they bankrupt their numbered companies to avoid lawsuits. You got city inspectors signing off on improperly insulated homes and HVAC systems that fail or are shut down by ATCO 2 years later cause they were not up to code. I am sure CP user EVERLAST can provide some additional horror stories as he has seen them all up close.


Lot's of monkey business and kickbacks going on if people are actually honest about it.

[btimbit]

Dude, nobody is arguing that corruption exists and those kinds of deals happen. We're only challenging that that's that's happening in the situation we're actually discussing. You're over here talking about anecdotal arenas and a golf course. We're talking about a specific neighborhood in Calgary, you're bringing up Trump and going SEEE!!!! CORRUPTION EXISTS!! YOU ALL ADMITTED IT!!!!