Russia invades Ukraine

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Is that really any different than any other countries? 80% of Americans supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq when it happened, even though that eventually resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. It was only after the major combat ended and the US continued to take causalities during the insurgency that support dropped.

I would say that first there were demonstrations in the US and UK against the Iraq war, and unlike Russia the Iraq war came against the backdrop of 9/11 where most Americans were angry, grieving a harrowing attack on their soil and wanted to have revenge against someone anyone for the film of poor souls throwing themselves of the WTC to escape the fires, I would give you that the rage was misdirected by the Neo Cons but without 9/11 there wouldn't have been a war, opposition to the war was always present in the US even though the war at first seemed to be a huge success.

[kn]

Originally Posted by T-Dog

I have a Facebook connection who is Russian and has been living in Calgary for a number of years. I can see all of her public comments she makes on news sites and she absolutely is aggressively supporting the Russian government position - attacking the Calgary Herald for not doing its job and just printing Western propaganda. She really believes that the civilian attacks have been staged and/or are the work of Ukrainian nazis and that Russia has been unfairly vilified. It’s shocking really how a Russian living in the West and having access to independent press can still aggressively support the Russian government narrative. I think this shows that there is definitely support for Putin’s war in Russia.

Absolutely. I was shocked how prevalent it is. Western media is all fake news and the atrocities are all staged.

We’ve cut off ties with two Russian families in Calgary who were previously friends. There is another couple we’re friends with but the wife is exactly like the woman you described.

I wish I could understand the psychology and what to say but it really is no different than the Trumpists and anti-vaccine/anti-science group.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlamesAddiction]

There was a video posted yesterday of some Russian soldiers who claimed that they surrendered to the Ukrainian military and are now forming what they called a "Free Russian Battalion" to fight against "Putin's" troops on Ukrainian soil. They were urging other Russians in Ukraine to join their cause.

Keeping in mind that the video was posted by a Ukrainian state sponsored media, you have to consider the propaganda angle. Having said that, I would love it if this is true.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There was a video posted yesterday of some Russian soldiers who claimed that they surrendered to the Ukrainian military and are now forming what they called a "Free Russian Battalion" to fight against "Putin's" troops on Ukrainian soil. They were urging other Russians in Ukraine to join their cause.

Keeping in mind that the video was posted by a Ukrainian state sponsored media, you have to consider the propaganda angle. Having said that, I would love it if this is true.

That's crazy to think about. Imagine shooting at your friends. Idk. I can't see it, but those guys are being put in a position I've never been close to finding myself in. I think I'd put a bullet in my own brain before I'd turn a gun on my own countrymen.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's crazy to think about. Imagine shooting at your friends. Idk. I can't see it, but those guys are being put in a position I've never been close to finding myself in. I think I'd put a bullet in my own brain before I'd turn a gun on my own countrymen.

Yeah, it would be a very hard decision to make. They acknowledged the fact that they will never be welcome back in Russia.

I believe there are already confirmed Belarussian units on the Ukrainian side. They also carefully chose their words to make it clear that they were dissidents fighting Lukashenko for a free Belarus.

Here are a couple of links that talk about it.

https://time.com/6165422/russians-in-ukraine/

It's a subscription, but you can sign in with a Google or Facebook account.

Ukraine’s government, which has cast the war as a contest between the forces of darkness and light, is leveraging Russian disunity. On April 5, three men wearing military fatigues and black balaclavas faced reporters in Kyiv, where they announced a new battalion called “Freedom for Russia,” composed entirely of Russian citizens, including former POWs. Addressing their fellow Russians, they said they were morally outraged by Moscow’s lack of discipline and apparent disregard for human life.

One of the unnamed men said the Russian government had tricked them into going to a sovereign country to carry out what he described as “genocide.” After he was taken prisoner – and later released – by Ukrainian forces, he switched sides to fight for Ukraine. “We were told propaganda. But there are no fascists here, no Nazis, but a civilian population,” he said. “I want to fight this lawless Putin regime so people can speak and breathe freely.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/belarus...me-11649325276

Another subscription site, so I didn't read the whole thing.

KYIV, Ukraine—For Pavel Kulazhanka, just like many Belarusian and Russian fighters who have joined Ukraine’s military in recent weeks, the path to freedom at home runs through defeating the Russian army here first.

Hundreds of volunteers from Belarus have joined a dedicated Belarusian battalion and other formations of Ukrainian armed forces since Russian President Vladimir Putin triggered the invasion on Feb. 24, with more than a 1,000 others still awaiting vetting and training, Belarusian opposition leaders say.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Pointman

"For the children" when translated from Russian means that original could be both "за детей" (a revenge for children, possibly meaning Russian conscripts) or "для детей" (the rocket is launched to bring death to children). Gotta see Russian original to tell what it means. If it was "за детей", it did not mean to kill children

I finally got to see the image. It reads "За детей" which means "A revenge for children". It does not mean "for children" as in "death for children".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-61036740.amp

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Can't speak to the real world, but on this forum it seems all the hate is against the Russian leadership, oligarchs, and military.
rightfully so. #### them and let them die.

I have yet to see in real life (in my world) anyone hating Russia or the average citizen.

There are always going to be people who hate, but from the news I've seen, they are few in number.

You post but you dont know if this is the real world?


I think you should stop posting and get some help.

I mean if you can not tell the difference between the real world and what is happening around you it is time to take a break.

I can multi quote you on this if you like.

You act like this is make believe. It is not real.

Your world? Lolipop trees, and candy houses.

My world is in reality.

I can not argue with a person living in a fantasy land.

You win!

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I finally got to see the image. It reads "За детей" which means "A revenge for children". It does not mean "for children" as in "death for children".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-61036740.amp

So why would they would bomb children?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I finally got to see the image. It reads "За детей" which means "A revenge for children". It does not mean "for children" as in "death for children".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-61036740.amp

It doesn’t matter what it says.

It killed dozens of women and children.

It. Killed. Dozens. Of. Innocent. People.

At least those poor souls met a quick end. As opposed to the heinous atrocities experienced elsewhere.

Rape.

Torture.

Murder.

Russians overwhelmingly support this war.

Implicitly or silently.

The difference is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what the ####ing rocket says.

The silence says everything.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's crazy to think about. Imagine shooting at your friends. Idk. I can't see it, but those guys are being put in a position I've never been close to finding myself in. I think I'd put a bullet in my own brain before I'd turn a gun on my own countrymen.

I mean if it came down to my own countrymen pulling the trigger on legitimately innocent people vs me pulling the trigger on them I'm leaning towards the latter.
Because if they could do that to innocent people I have no faith they wouldn't do it to me from a command or good faith.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

It doesn’t matter what it says.

It killed dozens of women and children.

It. Killed. Dozens. Of. Innocent. People.

At least those poor souls met a quick end. As opposed to the heinous atrocities experienced elsewhere.

Rape.

Torture.

Murder.

Russians overwhelmingly support this war.

Implicitly or silently.

The difference is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what the ####ing rocket says.

The silence says everything.

The bolded part may be true, but thankfully our longtime resident Calgarypuck Russian (Pointman) doesn't support any of this. Not that you were saying that, just thought it was worth highlighting to anyone who might come across this without context. I am glad he is here to help explain some of these nuances that are difficult to understand without his perspective.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Can't speak to the real world, but on this forum it seems all the hate is against the Russian leadership, oligarchs, and military.
rightfully so. #### them and let them die.

I have yet to see in real life (in my world) anyone hating Russia or the average citizen.

There are always going to be people who hate, but from the news I've seen, they are few in number.

You do now. I hate the average Russian for supporting this war. There are alot here too that out right support putin and all the propaganda . They feel it is all staged by Ukraine and the west. My wife works witha Russian girl who is you get 28 and believes all the propaganda. .

People polled within Russia that gets out is mostly older gen who support with millinals and younger not wanting to partake for fear of reprisals.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The bolded part may be true, but thankfully our longtime resident Calgarypuck Russian (Pointman) doesn't support any of this. Not that you were saying that, just thought it was worth highlighting to anyone who might come across this without context. I am glad he is here to help explain some of these nuances that are difficult to understand without his perspective.

You are missing the point of what I am saying.

I fully understand that he doesn’t support the war. I also understand that many Russians do not support the war.

But silence when your country is committing atrocities like we see now is how the Holocaust happened.

Implicit or silent, the hands are bloody either way.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's crazy to think about. Imagine shooting at your friends. Idk. I can't see it, but those guys are being put in a position I've never been close to finding myself in. I think I'd put a bullet in my own brain before I'd turn a gun on my own countrymen.

My in-laws told us a story recently as their village is occupied by Russian soldiers. The batch that came a couple weeks ago to hold the occupied position are actually Ukrainians from Donbas who were kidnapped and are being forced to do service for the Russian army. There were a few Russian commanders there to oversee things. But for the most part, it was Ukrainians occupying Ukrainians. Overall they were friendly towards our family there and left them alone.

My MIL spoke to some of them and heard their stories. From what she told us, these men were forced under threat of violence to their loved ones, to pick up arms for Russia and get sent to occupied settlements. As disgusting as it is, they are essentially being used as "bait" to see if Ukraine will fire at them, to reveal their positions.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

You post but you dont know if this is the real world?


I think you should stop posting and get some help.

I mean if you can not tell the difference between the real world and what is happening around you it is time to take a break.

I can multi quote you on this if you like.

You act like this is make believe. It is not real.

Your world? Lolipop trees, and candy houses.

My world is in reality.

I can not argue with a person living in a fantasy land.

You win!

This reads like a Haiku.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

So why would they would bomb children?

He's clarifying something we were discussing a couple days ago. His translation is relevant because there was a post calling the writing on the bomb sadistic, but that comment was based off an erronious translation that materially affected the intent behind the bombing from the perspective of the Russian soldier who deployed the bomb. Knowing it says something closer to 'revenge for the children' tells us the Russian soldier firing it likely had been deceived into thinking Ukrainians were killing Russian children in Donbas, so he felt he was on the 'right' side to be avenging these deaths (that we know didn't happen). Did he even know the target was civilian? Who knows? That wasn't part of the conversation.

Anyway, the intent of the bombing in the mind of the message-writing bomber is an entirely different conversation than the actual bombing of civilian targets. There's no question from anyone here - Pointman included - regarding the bombing. That was horrendous. But the meaning behind the message on the bomb was a valid conversation because it offered unique insight into the mind and motivation of the Russian soldier who dropped it.

[ikaris]

Not on topic

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1513100452786757632

[Pointman]

Officially, Kursk oblast (province) of Russia declared "state of terrorism danger, to the grade of yellow". Yellow is penultimate danger level. It's an area that is bordering Ukraine and was shelled a little bit a week ago. It's first time Russians officially admit some kind of danger within Russian borders.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://twitter.com/user/status/1513100452786757632

That looks extremely staged.