Brad Treliving needs to go

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

This was an important off-season for this franchise. We needed and wanted major changes, but we've received minor adjustments. We told them this team wasn't good enough, they've told us yes it is.

I guess we'll find out who was right.

Flames know where they are at. A team that is highly average, starved for actual offensive skill. Their top 2 skilled forwards might not even be here next season.

This season is a last ditch effort to get into the playoffs. I don't see how they aren't forced to rebuild as early as the deadline.

The Coleman signing, the timing and duration, just shows the collective IQ thd franchise has running the show. They ain't a middle 6 winger away, yet let's invest in a guy till his mid 30s, at which time the team is likely even worse.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, he definitely thought Bennett would be #1, and so he got Neal to build wings. IMO he got Lindholm as a 1B when it wasn’t working with Bennett, but the combo of Neal being terrible and Lindholm fitting in with JG and SM kept Lindy out of the middle for too long.

We might have gotten Sutter a bit too late, I think he saw the issues with the top line.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames know where they are at. A team that is highly average, starved for actual offensive skill. Their top 2 skilled forwards might not even be here next season.

This season is a last ditch effort to get into the playoffs. I don't see how they aren't forced to rebuild as early as the deadline.

The Coleman signing, the timing and duration, just shows the collective IQ thd franchise has running the show. They ain't a middle 6 winger away, yet let's invest in a guy till his mid 30s, at which time the team is likely even worse.

Best UFA signing this summer IMO...I think some people will be changing their tune in a month or so.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Best UFA signing this summer IMO...I think some people will be changing their tune in a month or so.

Sure. Maybe. But is it realistically moving the needle of success on this team?

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ I’m with Dino on this. I have high hopes for the Coleman signing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ I’m with Dino on this. I have high hopes for the Coleman signing.

I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying its just polishing the brass on the Titanic.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Flames know where they are at. A team that is highly average, starved for actual offensive skill. Their top 2 skilled forwards might not even be here next season.

This season is a last ditch effort to get into the playoffs. I don't see how they aren't forced to rebuild as early as the deadline.

The Coleman signing, the timing and duration, just shows the collective IQ thd franchise has running the show. They ain't a middle 6 winger away, yet let's invest in a guy till his mid 30s, at which time the team is likely even worse.

First of all, we don't know that their top 2 forwards will be gone - but IMO, the most likely scenario is that they will both still be here after next season. It is almost a certainty that at least one of them is.

To your other point, that Coleman is a stupid signing because they will need to rebuild, let's assume you are right and they do rebuild, how is signing Coleman a deterrent to that? They will still have to ice a team.

Pretty silly reason to be attacking the collective IQ of team management over.

[dino7c]

I don't know how you complain that they haven't done enough yet complain about the good signing they actually made.

Coleman is a free asset at a reasonable price...should the Flames totally tank in a few seasons he is a proven playoff performer that could net a draft pick.

Tampa paid a 1st for him last year

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

First of all, we don't know that their top 2 forwards will be gone - but IMO, the most likely scenario is that they will both still be here after next season. It is almost a certainty that at least one of them is.

To your other point, that Coleman is a stupid signing because they will need to rebuild, let's assume you are right and they do rebuild, how is signing Coleman a deterrent to that? They will still have to ice a team.

Pretty silly reason to be attacking the collective IQ of team management over.

Everyone seems very confident that Gaudreau will re-sign. He just got married and has the opportunity to decide where he wants to start his family. Personally, I'm a bit skeptical he would choose Calgary. Not to mention, the team isn't very good and seems to be on the decline. I just can't see what the real draw of staying in Calgary would be. Of course that is just my own gut feeling.

If Gaudreau decides to leave, does Tkachuk want to stay? I have a tough time seeing that as well. Of the two I'm more confident in Tkachuk being here long term, but I put him at a coin flip.

I think the best chance the Flames have is if everything goes right this year and these guys are rejuvenated by a succesful year. Another down year though and I see them both wanting to bolt and don't blame them.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I think the fact that his wedding just happened eased my mind a bit, and that they were waiting for that to happen, giving him personal time, before the media frenzy on the contract news. It just seems too clear that it’s all been negotiated in good faith, and it’s done.

[Sandman]

Coleman is a two-time cup winner, a great defensive forward who chips in offense, and was one of the most sought-after free agents this year. The consensus seemed to be that he would get north of $6M/yr, but we got him for free (TB paid a first) and below $5M. He plays with grit, and is a leader. This may be the FA steal of the year, to go with the other two steals from last year (Marky and Tanev). Does he automatically get us a cup? Of course not, but he definitely moves the needle. The deficiencies in our backend might move that needle back, but our group of forwards are better this year than last.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Coleman is a two-time cup winner, a great defensive forward who chips in offense, and was one of the most sought-after free agents this year. The consensus seemed to be that he would get north of $6M/yr, but we got him for free (TB paid a first) and below $5M. He plays with grit, and is a leader. This may be the FA steal of the year, to go with the other two steals from last year (Marky and Tanev). Does he automatically get us a cup? Of course not, but he definitely moves the needle. The deficiencies in our backend might move that needle back, but our group of forwards are better this year than last.

A lot rides on some bounce back seasons (Monahan, Tkachuk, Andersson) and some younger players taking another step or 2 (Hanifin, Dube, Mangi, Valimaki, Mackey, Andersson again).

But even though I know this board and fanbase overall seems to hate every decision the Flames make lately (and justifiably to some degree I would say), I don't hate the Lewis / Richardson additions on the 4th line. Coleman seems like he'll be great as you said. Vladar sounds like a opportunistic addition that could be a steal, Zadorov intrigues me, but Gudbranson is the head-scratcher for me... though it's hard to say definitively how the D is going to look given the number of NHL bodies currently in the mix.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by AC

A lot rides on some bounce back seasons (Monahan, Tkachuk, Andersson) and some younger players taking another step or 2 (Hanifin, Dube, Mangi, Valimaki, Mackey, Andersson again).

But even though I know this board and fanbase overall seems to hate every decision the Flames make lately (and justifiably to some degree I would say), I don't hate the Lewis / Richardson additions on the 4th line. Coleman seems like he'll be great as you said. Vladar sounds like a opportunistic addition that could be a steal, Zadorov intrigues me, but Gudbranson is the head-scratcher for me... but it's hard to say definitely how the D is going to look given the number of NHL bodies currently in the mix.

I agree. I think we'll be more stingy defensively, and we're harder to play against, but I worry about how DS will handle Andersson and especially Valimaki. He was pretty critical of our young D last year, and even went to far as to basically blame the season on them. I don't doubt our D's ability to defend under Sutter, but our offense from the backend was in the bottom third of the league last year WITH Gio-so we definitely need these guys to step up big time in the O zone.

I love the Coleman signing, love the Goalies, I like Zadorov, don't mind Richardson or Lewis, and I'm confident that DS will utilize Gudbranson in a way that will make him look good. If we had any other coach, EG would be a head-scratcher for me too. Just my opinion of course.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Coleman is a two-time cup winner, a great defensive forward who chips in offense, and was one of the most sought-after free agents this year. The consensus seemed to be that he would get north of $6M/yr, but we got him for free (TB paid a first) and below $5M. He plays with grit, and is a leader. This may be the FA steal of the year, to go with the other two steals from last year (Marky and Tanev). Does he automatically get us a cup? Of course not, but he definitely moves the needle. The deficiencies in our backend might move that needle back, but our group of forwards are better this year than last.

No disagreement with your post at all. My concerns with the move are more that signing quality UFAs long term, who are already 30+, makes sense for teams who have a young core to build around already. With the long term questions around gaudreau, tkachuk, monahan, it's unclear on whether this team is going scorched earth rebuild within the next year or two.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, Sutter is here for 2 more seasons - this season and the next. If things don't work out, I expect that Sutter will move on, Treliving will be canned, and this team will start a rebuild.


As for not making major moves to the team this off-season (and speaking as a poster who feels that Treliving should have been fired), I disagree with that statement. Sure, an Eichel trade (price dependent of course, with a good look from the Flames' doctors first as well!) would have been a move I would personally have liked to see. However, to say that the Flames haven't made substantial changes is certainly not true.


I think the entire culture of this team has been turned upside-down. I think this team is going to be way more tenacious, way more intimidating, way harder to play against, way better defensively, and generally going to be the #1 team in the NHL in terms of 'disliked to play against' by other teams.


I think the Flames' centre depth is strong enough (if everyone stays healthy - which goes for every team in the NHL really). Once again, I would have loved to see Eichel there (and it may yet happen), but for now, I think this is good enough. The biggest weakness on the team is a lack of PMD overall. Will the Flames be able to transition quickly enough from D? Can they generate enough from the D offensively to cause confusion and breakdowns in the other team's defence? Will the lack of strong PMDs slow the Flames down? I guess we are about to find out.


I do, however, greatly disagree that there hasn't been a substantial change to this team. I do think that from every line top to bottom, that this team will be harder to play against and be better defensively.



I do not think that they are a contender, but I do have them finishing first in the Pacific (there are no contenders in the Pacific, and that includes Vegas).

[bax]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This summer has been a full on endorsement of Tkachuk being given support in his preferred style of play.

He has a squad of goonish capable players that should be backing him right or wrong. Gudbrandson, Zaradov, Ritchie, Lucic and Tkachuk

That is one heck of send a message starting line-up. In todays NHL having these 5 on the ice together, even by accident, might cost Sutter some fine $$$.

Coleman hits everything that he possibly can.

Tkachuk will be captain

Gaudreau should be going around double dog daring someone to slash him.

Markstrom will not have to worry about other teams skating through his crease.

Not very often I find myself endorsing a ricardo post, but I actually think this is a good point.

All this talk last season about internal meetings, Tkachuk being confused, and how every night can’t be a blood bath.

Team adds Gudbranson, Coleman, Zadorov, and a bunch of responsible bottom 6 forwards to go along with Ritchie and Lucic. Seems like Treliving and Sutter are backing up Tkachuk.

[Monahammer]

It's not the direction I would have taken the team, but I have to agree and summarize some of the disparate comments in here (credit to ricardodw too, he's right about the tacit approval of Tkachuk hockey):

- We have been clamoring for team identity for years.
- We have loudly complained that our team is too soft and weak, especially for playoffs.
- Many of us were shouting for blood and for heads to roll regarding the rumors of Tkachuk being told to tone it down.

Taking all of this, Treliving has now given us:
- Sutter, a coach known for having teams with a hard working, meritocratic, hard hitting identity.
- Acquired a set of players known for 2 way play to make us more difficult to play against and strong in the defensive sense (also with playoff resumes): Coleman, Lewis, Richardson, Pitlick
- Acquired a couple of players known to be ultra goons (back up for Tkachuk so he never has to take it easy): Zadorov, Gudbranson

So yeah, I too am disappointed that dreams of Eichel never came to fruition, but arguably Treliving has addressed the three biggest gripes we had with the team for the last two years. My inclination was trade core and full rebuild, or Eichel, but all that said I think Treliving has identified weaknesses that all of us have problems with and moved to address them. As such he deserves to stay for at least this full season.

Also, how many people do you think are going to be taking cheap shots at Johnny or Mony when there's virtually 0 chance that player won't soon be on the ice going into a corner with 1 or more of Lucic, Zadorov, or Gudbranson?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying its just polishing the brass on the Titanic.

I think Coleman is going to be a good add for the team but you know expectations are ultra-low when the most exciting offseason addition is a 29 year old forward with a career high of 36 points.

[Strange Brew]

Coleman is hopefully a Conroy type signing. A guy that shows he has more to give when provided a bigger role. The term is too long but the salary cap will go up eventually so hope that by years 5 and 6 it just won't seem like much money.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's not the direction I would have taken the team, but I have to agree and summarize some of the disparate comments in here (credit to ricardodw too, he's right about the tacit approval of Tkachuk hockey):

- We have been clamoring for team identity for years.
- We have loudly complained that our team is too soft and weak, especially for playoffs.
- Many of us were shouting for blood and for heads to roll regarding the rumors of Tkachuk being told to tone it down.

Taking all of this, Treliving has now given us:
- Sutter, a coach known for having teams with a hard working, meritocratic, hard hitting identity.
- Acquired a set of players known for 2 way play to make us more difficult to play against and strong in the defensive sense (also with playoff resumes): Coleman, Lewis, Richardson, Pitlick
- Acquired a couple of players known to be ultra goons (back up for Tkachuk so he never has to take it easy): Zadorov, Gudbranson

So yeah, I too am disappointed that dreams of Eichel never came to fruition, but arguably Treliving has addressed the three biggest gripes we had with the team for the last two years. My inclination was trade core and full rebuild, or Eichel, but all that said I think Treliving has identified weaknesses that all of us have problems with and moved to address them. As such he deserves to stay for at least this full season.

Also, how many people do you think are going to be taking cheap shots at Johnny or Mony when there's virtually 0 chance that player won't soon be on the ice going into a corner with 1 or more of Lucic, Zadorov, or Gudbranson?

I agree with most of this, but I still think the team is a bit short on high-end talent, particularly on offence. Regardless of how the Eichel thing shakes out, at the very least the Flames will certainly be tougher to play against and won't get pushed around. Whether or not that translates to a playoff appearance or any kind of post-season success is anyone's guess. Sure, Sutter did it with the Kings several years ago, but can he do it again with this roster in today's game?