Right, so what is expected of us there? There was a plan in place to get back on target for 2032. Then the response was, that's too long a timeframe. Last I heard they accelerated that by several years, but it's not realistic to do it overnight. So what's the requirement, do they just want to see a commitment to doing it by X date? Or is it "tariffs stay on until you're at the NATO target"?
No one seems to be able to explain what the actual ASK is.
There is no actual ask, and there's no legit reason for doing any of this. It's all horses***.
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to direwolf For This Useful Post:
Yeah, I was just saying that it was the only legitimate ask. I don't think hitting the target would actually help us much other than being able to defend ourselves better. Trump is basically just making stuff up to see how much stuff he can get for how cheep.
What "stuff"? This makes everything more expensive. Concessions? About what? All we hear is the border and NATO spending.
On the first one, we've dumped a bunch of money (hundreds of millions at least) into beefing up border security - do they want something additional to that? OK, I'm listening. What is the additional thing they want? Satellite surveillance? What?
On NATO spending, cool, we should be spending 2% of our GDP on defence. OK, got it. 40 billion-ish and we're currently at 31 billion. We've said we'd get to that 2% figure by 2032. Not good enough? OK, I'm listening. When is a reasonable target date? 2029? 2027? At least we can then figure out what's involved in meeting these demands.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Yeah, I was just saying that it was the only legitimate ask. I don't think hitting the target would actually help us much other than being able to defend ourselves better. Trump is basically just making stuff up to see how much stuff he can get for how cheep.
That 2% could go a long way towards Canada beefing up its airforce and drone capacity for NORAD, more icebreakers, and a general boost to arctic defense, so I can definitely see why the US would want to see some immediate progress there. And why they would be pissed that we did nothing but watch our navy and airforce rust for a decade.
But like you said, 2% is the only real beef and neither it, nor 40lbs of Fentanyl is a remote justification to declare tariffs against Canada (Mexico maybe). Plus, now they just gave the government they hate dealing with a huge boost at the polls and incentivized them not to follow through and to fight in order to win an election. Give a real roadmap, publicly, on what Canada can do to end this if so inclined. And publicly say what they are failing at. Enough with the 51st state ####.
It's Stupidity 101. Vance should know better but its clear he's taking orders on what to say.
Last edited by Thunderball; 02-02-2025 at 03:18 PM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Thunderball For This Useful Post:
Cleaning the streets? What is he operating a street cleaner now? He don’t give a crap about the “streets “ that the lower class lives in. He just needed a loophole so he can use tariffs as a threat. If you got rid of fentanyl tomorrow he would find another reason.
Trump wants a "cut" of the fentanyl action. If he was serious about the War on Drugs, he wouldn't cutting out treatment funding. He'd help out his own son.
It would help if Trump would answer his f***ing phone. Apparently Trudeau and his team have been trying to contact him since his inauguration and like a petulant child, he refuses take their calls.
The Following User Says Thank You to direwolf For This Useful Post:
Trudeau refused to allow the US dairy industry access to Canada. That was the extent of our "negotiations."
Why should we suffer in Alberta so rich dairy farmers in Quebec can live high on the hog? Cheese is three times the price in Canada than it is in the USA, and the quality of the Canadian product is much poorer.
Haha
You are aware that cheese in America only has to contain 51% real cheese, right? The other 49%, who knows. The worst product you can buy in America, not including in/from Wisconsin, is cheese.
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to EldrickOnIce For This Useful Post:
Trump wants a "cut" of the fentanyl action. If he was serious about the War on Drugs, he wouldn't cutting out treatment funding. He'd help out his own son.
It's probably more about making cocaine great again. Fentanyl scares the #### out of cocaine users.
And wasn't it American pharma companies that pushed fentanyl on the public in the first place?
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Not sure if this was posted elsewhere. Just watching it now.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
So many Canadian companies and small businesses either sold to foreign investors or simply don’t exist anymore. You know that a significant number also went under during Covid.
This would be a great time to start more businesses, as long as the banks are willing to loan out money with preferred lower interest rates.
Pretty mediocre and lackluster delivery from PP, having watched that. Big fail in the middle going to campaign slogans ("Axe the tax" etc). The later part was fine but he'd already kinda lost the plot, and his.... I think it was a 7 step plan but I lost track... just seemed to be rambling at the end.
Not a good showing. Some of what he said was right. A lot of it mirrored what Trudeau said better yesterday.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
That 2% could go a long way towards Canada beefing up its airforce and drone capacity for NORAD, more icebreakers, and a general boost to arctic defense, so I can definitely see why the US would want to see some immediate progress there. And why they would be pissed that we did nothing but watch our navy and airforce rust for a decade.
But like you said, 2% is the only real beef and neither it, nor 40lbs of Fentanyl is a remote justification to declare tariffs against Canada (Mexico maybe). Plus, now they just gave the government they hate dealing with a huge boost at the polls and incentivized them not to follow through and to fight in order to win an election. Give a real roadmap, publicly, on what Canada can do to end this if so inclined. And publicly say what they are failing at. Enough with the 51st state ####.
It's Stupidity 101. Vance should know better but its clear he's taking orders on what to say.
It doesn't matter what we deem as justification to declare tariffs. We know its wrong. It doesn't matter what we think, they did it anyway. There is no roadmap, Trump came out and said there is nothing we can do. All of us talking about this is really pointless. Throw the roadmap out of the window, its clearly not happening. We are wasting breath talking about it to be frank.
Lets focus on how tf we can build our economy from years of neglect and poor policy. We need to worry about us. How do we get energy across the country? How do we open trade between our provinces? How can we build infrastructure (quickly) to help create jobs and most importantly become self sustainable? While building that, lets find new markets for our goods. What are those markets? How do we approach them? How do we get our goods there?
I want our elected politicians to start talking about these things and what we can start doing now. Lets build, build and build! Im tired of reading "but we are your best friends", "we have been allies forever", "we helped you in 911", "we sent our firefighters to help you". Guess what, the current USA doesn't give a ####. We sound pathetic, because in reality we are pathetic right now. So lets get off our asses and figure out how to build Canada better for our children. Thats what we need to be talking about.
The Following User Says Thank You to FlameyMcFlameFace For This Useful Post:
This could be an opportunity to bring jobs back here, whatever that means. But also the government should tariff the he’ll out of harmful luxury items and food that pose a long term risk to Canadian health. Alcohol, and stuff like that should be #### on.
Interesting take from Peter Schiff, a US analyst who suggests Canada not impose retaliatory tariffs:
“25% tariffs on goods coming in from Mexico and Canada are not a disaster for Canada or Mexico. There will be declines in U.S. sales, but those countries can still consume those goods domestically or export to other nations. So companies making those goods will see profits fall for the portion of their sales that go to the next highest bidders.
But Americans will be paying higher prices on all Canadian and Mexican imports they buy, or for higher-priced domestic substitutes where available. But many lower-income Americans will be priced out of the market for those goods entirely.
So the tariffs portend more negative consequences for Americans than they do for Canadians or Mexicans. If either Mexico or Canada retaliates with tariffs of their own, the effect will be the same. Their own citizens will suffer more than Americans. That is the unique nature of a trade war. Each side suffers most from its own offensive.
The best way for Mexico and Canada to win is not to retaliate. That would include not providing any subsidies to exporters or any attempt to weaken their currencies. That would only reduce the sting tariffs have on Americans, shift the burden to their own people, and prolong the trade war.”
So in other words just take it in a arse and say thanks?
Was interesting at the grocery store today, lots more people than usual examining labels and I heard more than one conversation about making sure it’s from Canada, etc.
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to OutOfTheCube For This Useful Post:
Not sure if this was posted elsewhere. Just watching it now.
he somehow managed to say every right thing and not be remotely believable. Same guy complaining about illegal guns wants more legal guns to kill our citizens with
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
This could be an opportunity to bring jobs back here, whatever that means. But also the government should tariff the he’ll out of harmful luxury items and food that pose a long term risk to Canadian health. Alcohol, and stuff like that should be #### on.
One thing I was hoping we would have seen over the last 20 years is more investment in hydroponic agriculture up here. It isn't cheap but we have lots of available land and cheap energy so we should be able to build out some massive greenhouses for domestic production. I don't expect these tariffs to kick that off but I would be pleasantly surprised.
Was interesting at the grocery store today, lots more people than usual examining labels and I heard more than one conversation about making sure it’s from Canada, etc.
Same here... stores are catching on. Seeing more labels pop up too. It's February 2 and I was surprised by how much fresh Canadian produce was available.
The Following User Says Thank You to Reggie Dunlop For This Useful Post:
