[Trade] E.Kane, Bogosian, Kasdorf to Buffalo for Myers, Stafford, Armia, Lemieux and 1st

[FBI]

When is the last time Myers played meaningful hockey?

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by FBI

When is the last time Myers played meaningful hockey?

World Juniors?

[sureLoss]

Myers played in the NHL playoffs in 2011

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

No they weren't on the table. For months the rumor from TSN was that the Sabres wanted Larkin or Mantua in a package for Myers. Never reported from credible sources that Detroit was willing to give them up. In fact TSN reported that Detroit wasn't going to move them.

It would be interesting to see if Larkin or Mantha would be available, and what the return would be. I like both as prospects and the Wings are doing surprisingly well this year. Maybe they do overpay for a RH defenseman.

[Captaincanada80]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

It would be interesting to see if Larkin or Mantha would be available, and what the return would be. I like both as prospects and the Wings are doing surprisingly well this year. Maybe they do overpay for a RH defenseman.

Wideman 50% retained, B level prospect and 2nd for Mantha?

I'd love to see a deal like that

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There is nothing quite as pathetic as someone begging for validation on a message board.

Of course, in your sad little attempt to make yourself appear prescient, you masked the fact that you agreed at that time that (1) the Jets were not playoff bound and (2) that the Jets needed new management to succeed.

Actually my main point that I guess you conveniently forget was that the Jets had a solid core that was still young and they had a lot of prospect depth. You said they were slightly better than the Oilers and that wasn't changing any time soon. I said I don't see how anyone could say they are going nowhere when you look at the amount of talent they have. While I didn't see their turn around being this quick given how deep the West is I definitely saw it coming. You however said they were going nowhere. And validation is the last thing I need. I just find it funny when you get up on your high horse and talk all snotty and turn out to be horribly wrong. Sometimes you make bold statements and a few months later they turn out to be terribly wrong. Nothing wrong with that. Carry on.

[YogiBerra]

Detroit won't trade Larnkin or Mantha unless they get a long term solution. Maybe if they are complaining about being in the minors when they aren't quite ready for the nhl like Jankrok; Holland holds onto his young guys especially guys with their potential.

Heck Holland wouldn't include his first in the Bouw deal he definetely won't trade prospects like that for Wideman.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Captaincanada80

Wideman 50% retained, B level prospect and 2nd for Mantha?

I'd love to see a deal like that

Please tell me this isn't serious.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think Winnipeg did well in the light of mitigating circumstances with Kane, but this is hardly what I would characterise as a big win. They moved two of the three best players in the deal, and the prospects they received in return are pretty underwhelming.

People tend to forget that the biggest player involved in the deal was also the biggest issue in the Jets organization. In a lot of ways just getting Kane out of the locker room is addition by subtraction. Bogosian also was running his course with the organization with his developement stalled and he was regressing. The fact they got a defenseman that many teams have been rumoured to covet for years that the Sabres were unwilling to move plus a 1st round pick in what appears a decent draft plus two former first round picks that are on the level of Sven Baertschi really does point to the Jets improving substantially if Myers plays better than Bogosian (not a certainty but close) and even on of the two forwards or draft picks turn into a top 6 forward. As we have seen with the Flames good locker room chemistry can make up for a lack of elite talent and IMO the Sabres have taken on more risk here as the last player that was as openly disliked in a locker room as Kane was Sean Avery and he never changed his spots and lets not forget Kane has never really exploded into the player that many think he could be. Sometimes these guys are what they are.

[herashak]

if we are getting larkin we are probably trading away gio

[bax]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People tend to forget that the biggest player involved in the deal was also the biggest issue in the Jets organization. In a lot of ways just getting Kane out of the locker room is addition by subtraction. Bogosian also was running his course with the organization with his developement stalled and he was regressing. The fact they got a defenseman that many teams have been rumoured to covet for years that the Sabres were unwilling to move plus a 1st round pick in what appears a decent draft plus two former first round picks that are on the level of Sven Baertschi really does point to the Jets improving substantially if Myers plays better than Bogosian (not a certainty but close) and even on of the two forwards or draft picks turn into a top 6 forward. As we have seen with the Flames good locker room chemistry can make up for a lack of elite talent and IMO the Sabres have taken on more risk here as the last player that was as openly disliked in a locker room as Kane was Sean Avery and he never changed his spots and lets not forget Kane has never really exploded into the player that many think he could be. Sometimes these guys are what they are.

Lemieux was a second round pick and personally, I've never been very high on Armia. I think he struggles to translate his game to the NHL.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Myers has a higher hockey IQ and ceiling than Bogosian.. in no way is bogo more valuable. Those 2 are a wash at best for Buffalo if not advantage Winnipeg.

You're excited and that's understandable but it seems like you don't watch the Eastern conference. Myers does not have a higher hockey IQ than Bogosian. In fact his hockey IQ is lower than most players in the league and this is his problem - he has the physical skills but doesn't think the game at a top level and can't make the correct reads at a NHL pace often enough.

You can dispute "value" as much as you want, but the fact is Zach Bogosian is a better NHL player than Tyler Myers. This part of the deal is a downgrade for the Jets.

It's entirely possible that Myers continues to develop, which is why he was highly coveted around the league in the first place. Because NHL GMs have a hard-on for huge guys with raw physical skills. But for every Milan Lucic, there are far more Brad Isbisters. Myers at this point is paid like the former but plays like the latter.

It seems like a nice deal for the Jets, but they gave up the 2 best players in the trade and that can't really be disputed.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People tend to forget that the biggest player involved in the deal was also the biggest issue in the Jets organization. In a lot of ways just getting Kane out of the locker room is addition by subtraction. Bogosian also was running his course with the organization with his developement stalled and he was regressing. The fact they got a defenseman that many teams have been rumoured to covet for years that the Sabres were unwilling to move plus a 1st round pick in what appears a decent draft plus two former first round picks that are on the level of Sven Baertschi really does point to the Jets improving substantially if Myers plays better than Bogosian (not a certainty but close) and even on of the two forwards or draft picks turn into a top 6 forward. As we have seen with the Flames good locker room chemistry can make up for a lack of elite talent and IMO the Sabres have taken on more risk here as the last player that was as openly disliked in a locker room as Kane was Sean Avery and he never changed his spots and lets not forget Kane has never really exploded into the player that many think he could be. Sometimes these guys are what they are.

I fully support the notion of making a team better by getting rid of a player who brings negativity to the team. However, they aren't replacing his spot in the lineup with another player with the same skills and that will still hurt the on-ice product. Not that they were ever going to do so though, not in this scenario. Perhaps a year or two ago, yes, but not after they let it come to the breaking point.

Immediately, they aren't looking improved, but they can turn it around if they develop the prospects and hit a homerun with the pick they acquired.

Yeah, it's looking like a meh Trade for the Jets. Yay, they got rid of Kane, but meh, it doesn't help them improve.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Red John

You can dispute "value" as much as you want, but the fact is Zach Bogosian is a better NHL player than Tyler Myers. This part of the deal is a downgrade for the Jets.
.....

It seems like a nice deal for the Jets, but they gave up the 2 best players in the trade and that can't really be disputed.

http://jetsnation.ca/2015/2/11/why-t...-zach-bogosian

This article would disagree with you and provides solid, fact based data. Bogo and Myers are a virtual dead heat and depending on which stats you use (fancy stats) one is better than the other. Some people say its a wash, some say Bogo is better, others say Myers is better. I think its impossible for you to write here with authority and say that bogo isn't just better, but that it can't be disputed.

[Weitz]

My favorite part of this whole debacle is that anything Kane or his Agent said has to come with a grain of salt. Yet anything the Winnipeg media or his team mates said is taken as the word of god.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Weitz

My favorite part of this whole debacle is that anything Kane or his Agent said has to come with a grain of salt. Yet anything the Winnipeg media or his team mates said is taken as the word of god.

Agents have a far, far different agenda and history of telling the truth than teams do

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Weitz

My favorite part of this whole debacle is that anything Kane or his Agent said has to come with a grain of salt. Yet anything the Winnipeg media or his team mates said is taken as the word of god.

Well the agent is biased, so remove him from the equation. The organization and all the players comments are the same, so that then becomes just a bit more believable that anything the last person could say, Kane himself. Think of the org and players as witnesses.

It definitely makes sense.

[Enoch Root]

An agent has a bit of an agenda, not to mention a bias, no?

What agenda or bias do team-mates have?

Do you randomly attack or insult co-workers? (unless they have given you reason to)

[Weitz]

So if a bunch of the leaders disliked Kane and you weren't a leader, do you follow the leaders or stand up for him? Pretty obvious.

But in my mind what happens to him for the next 2-3 years will really confirm the whole Winnipeg situation. If he is great in Buffalo and praised as a great teammate than its the fault of the other players in Winnipeg. If its the same old same old, then obviously everything is true.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So if a bunch of the leaders disliked Kane and you weren't a leader, do you follow the leaders or stand up for him? Pretty obvious.

But in my mind what happens to him for the next 2-3 years will really confirm the whole Winnipeg situation. If he is great in Buffalo and praised as a great teammate than its the fault of the other players in Winnipeg. If its the same old same old, then obviously everything is true.

It's not just the leaders. It's various players and management and coaches. Use Occam's rasor:
Is it more likely that a myriad of people all lying to put blame on someone for something strictly because they don't like him and want t him to leave

Or

Is the player acting inappropriate and covering up