New poll: Harper - Conservatives headed for third place next election?

[Resolute 14]

Oh, and nice job sidestepping the point of how disingenuous you are.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by evman150

I've voted for three different parties in the last three elections. Can you say the same? Have you ever voted for a different party (PC=R=CA=CPC) in your life?

So politically it appears that you're all over the map and a bit of a bandwagon jumper too.

I may not agree with died in the wool Liberals or NDP'ers or staunch Green Party supporters but I at least admire them for the courage of their convictions and their willingness to support their party through the bad years as well as the good.

You on the other hand appear to only support the tumbleweed party.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So politically it appears that you're all over the map and a bit of a bandwagon jumper too.

I may not agree with died in the wool Liberals or NDP'ers or staunch Green Party supporters but I at least admire them for the courage of their convictions and their willingness to support their party through the bad years as well as the good.

You on the other hand appear to only support the tumbleweed party.

This isn't sports. Loyalty is not something to be admired. It's actually the opposite. Continuing to support the CPC in the face of all the terrible things they've done is something I find inconceivable. The anti-science attitude of the party alone should be enough to convince someone not to vote for them. I suppose it comes down to what you value. If you value number one and the almighty buck, then the CPC is for you. If you care about the welfare of others and of the country as a whole, then there are three other choices for you. Simplistic maybe, but judging by the number of Albertans around here who trumpet the interests of Albertans and their tax dollars, I think in this case the simplistic determination is pretty much correct.

For the record, in 2008 I voted Liberal, because all other things being equal, I vote Liberal. In 2011 I voted NDP, because I liked what the candidate had done as MP in the previous three years, and I felt she was better qualified than the Liberal candidate. In the 2012 by-election, I voted Green, because the Green candidate was the only one who had spoken out against the billion dollar sewage boondoggle, which was going to waste hundreds of millions of Canadian taxpayer dollars, hundreds of millions of British Columbian taxpayer dollars, and be far more harmful than the status quo to the environment.

My candidates won 1/3 of those races. Hardly bandwagon jumping.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So politically it appears that you're all over the map and a bit of a bandwagon jumper too.

I may not agree with died in the wool Liberals or NDP'ers or staunch Green Party supporters but I at least admire them for the courage of their convictions and their willingness to support their party through the bad years as well as the good.

You on the other hand appear to only support the tumbleweed party.

Politics isn't sports and shouldn't be viewed as such. "Supporting their party through the bad years as well as the good" isn't something that should be admired. We're talking about the governance of our country here, not cheering for professional athletes! The whole "my team, right or wrong" mentality is one of the biggest contributing factors in the decline of intelligent political discourse in the last few decades.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

You're not supposed to support "your" party through thick and thin. You're supposed to vote for the best candidate/party.

its foolish to think that it's the same party election in election out.

[Rerun]

I support the political party that most closely reflects my beliefs and values. My beliefs and values tend to change very slowly over the years... not election to election.... or whatever candidate appears to have the best chance at defeating the party I like the least.

And by the way, politics is a sport... a blood sport as many have pointed out in the past.

[jayswin]

Haha, I can't believe someone came in here and proudly stated they treat politics like sports. I can't believe anyone would admit that. It's that very line of thinking that ruins the whole political process and a big part of why America is so messed up.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by evman150

I've voted for three different parties in the last three elections. Can you say the same? Have you ever voted for a different party (PC=R=CA=CPC) in your life?

Originally Posted by evman150

For the record, in 2008 I voted Liberal, because all other things being equal, I vote Liberal. In 2011 I voted NDP, because I liked what the candidate had done as MP in the previous three years, and I felt she was better qualified than the Liberal candidate. In the 2012 by-election, I voted Green

So you criticize people who have only voted for right leaning parties when you have only voted for left leaning parties? Don't hurt yourself getting off that horse.

[troutman]

I'm not sure where the Greens fit in the spectrum:

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/vision-green/introduction

Not sure I would call them a party of the left.

Long term they will probably become redundant as every party will be faced with having to become more green.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Jacks

So you criticize people who have only voted for right leaning parties when you have only voted for left leaning parties? Don't hurt yourself getting off that horse.

One's centre, one's left, and one is all over the place.

That is far more than any of you CPC fanboys and fangirls can say. GO CPC GO! GO CPC GO!

[GP_Matt]

I wish we could move past such simple descriptions as centre, left and right. Political ideas have to be more complicated than a one dimensional line.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by evman150

There are two provinces where the population puts their interests far before the nation's - Quebec and Alberta. At least Quebec has an excuse - what's yours?

Lame. This statement is so bizarre I am not sure even where to start really... you can't honestly believe this?

B.C. is a pretty difficult place to get projects going. Major oil and gas infrastructure is needed and is met with a staggering amount of backlash from the populace. Why do you suppose there are protests and rallies to deny energy projects from moving forward?

What about provincial transfer payments? Wouldn't that be a transfer of wealth from Alberta to other provinces?

How about hiring people from out of province to support ongoing projects in the province? You'll say it's because we need the people and I'll agree, but at the end of the day it is still providing a job to an out of province worker.

How about the Canada east pipeline? Are you aware of how much push back there has been regarding this line, that will help Canada?

People in general will always strive to serve their own interests first, that's just human nature. To suggest one group of people within some provincial boundary are better or worse than another group of people that happen to live in some other provincial boundary has to be one of the most ignorant things stated in this thread.

[Mr.Coffee]

Regarding the conservatives and Harper, I am not a fan of their foreign diplomatic practices nor their stance on science and research. These points would be enough for me to think about switching a vote, however I do respect their fiscal policy and admire the fact that they've worked on reducing our deficit. That is a responsible outcome.

Just wish we could get the best of all worlds.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Regarding the conservatives and Harper, I am not a fan of their foreign diplomatic practices nor their stance on science and research. These points would be enough for me to think about switching a vote, however I do respect their fiscal policy and admire the fact that they've worked on reducing our deficit. That is a responsible outcome.

Just wish we could get the best of all worlds.

The partisan vortex is seriously depressing.

Thinking that the PCs are shrewd fiscal managers does not exist within reality. The PCs have increased spending, have increased the debt, created hosts of new regulations on business, bailed out corporate sectors and have generally acted in less interest to the public purse than the other party.

Public spending after inflation and population growth is higher since when the Tories took government.

The Conservatives have added $160 billion to the national debt.

Yet meanwhile you seem to imply that the Liberals are somehow worse fiscal managers? There's literally no basis to that claim.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

B.C. is a pretty difficult place to get projects going. Major oil and gas infrastructure is needed and is met with a staggering amount of backlash from the populace.

Needed for who? I honestly don't know if this infrastructure is needed or not, but if it is, who needs it?

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Why do you suppose there are protests and rallies to deny energy projects from moving forward?

Because they don't think it's needed?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I support the political party that most closely reflects my beliefs and values. My beliefs and values tend to change very slowly over the years... not election to election.... or whatever candidate appears to have the best chance at defeating the party I like the least.

And by the way, politics is a sport... a blood sport as many have pointed out in the past.

So what are you beliefs and values that would lead you to support the PCs?

1. Embezzle money through the PMs office to silence a corruption investigation of a Torie appointed Senator and fundraiser.

2. Cancel the long-form census thus making statistical data on demographics worthless.

3. Provide a tax cut to the richest 2 quintiles of Canadians.

4. Spend hundreds of millions/billions on needless welfare destroying projects: crime and prisons, auto-bailouts, fighter jets.

5. Cut funding to scientific research and silence government researchers from speaking publicly.

6. Attempt to pass a democratic reform agenda which is actually a way to make voting more difficult for supporters of other parties and to make themselves less accountable to an arm's length electoral agency.

7. Neuter the office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer after his evidence based analysis of government budgeting demonstrated significant fudging of cost and benefits. In other words get rid of accountability checks.

What does voting for this party say for your "values"?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Regarding the conservatives and Harper, I am not a fan of their foreign diplomatic practices nor their stance on science and research. These points would be enough for me to think about switching a vote, however I do respect their fiscal policy and admire the fact that they've worked on reducing our deficit. That is a responsible outcome.

Just wish we could get the best of all worlds.

The Conservatives and Harper formed the government in 2006 (and the Liberals ruled from 1993 to 2006):

Spoiler!

Not that a government's fiscal policy should be judged solely on deficit spending. There were points during the recession that deficit spending made sense, but they certainly didn't decrease the deficit.

[Resolute 14]

And now we circle back right to the start of this thread. As we look at FlamesAddiction's chart, we notice a spike in the debt beginning around 2008. I wonder what also happened in 2008...?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I wonder what also happened in 2008...?

First, Harper squandered a $9B surplus on GST cuts just before the financial crisis, then issued a good news financial update, then as the sh** started to hit the fan told us it was a great buying opportunity. The man is an economic genius!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And now we circle back right to the start of this thread. As we look at FlamesAddiction's chart, we notice a spike in the debt beginning around 2008. I wonder what also happened in 2008...?

This is actually a pretty good review of everything that happened IMO.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...0149/?page=all

They promised we would be running a surplus by 2015, so I guess that will be the critical point at which to judge if it was a failure or not.