Brad Treliving needs to go

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by bax

Why not? Especially if they are currently negotiating in good faith as has been reported?

Colorado just did it with Landeskog
Washington just did it with Ovechkin

Obviously as a fan I want it done as soon as possible, but it’s not like this is that uncommon.

I thought that the expansion draft played a huge role in Ovi signing late. Probably with Landeskog too but less so. There was such a short period of time between the expansion draft and free agency. It was more difficult to iron all the small details out as a result.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

All I'm saying is the assumption of inactivity because of not recognizing the need for change, or just not doing anything out of spite to the fan base doesn't really hold water in my mind (bit of a pun there)

It's the repeated comments from the GM about not putting bodies on the tarmack, being patient etc. that speaks volumes. He's a guy who very clearly overplayed his hand many times as a GM and is now being burned by doing so with the core forward group.

You don't churn through 5 coaches in 7 years as a GM and typically still have a job, and this is even more true when you've had possibly 1 successful season that ended as an utter failure as the only bright spot.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

You may by right. Ovechkin and Landeskog are from overseas though and it's not like they can go play for their home team the way Gaudreau can in Philly. I don't buy into the narrative that Johnny wants to leave Calgary and play in Philly per se, but they're kinda different situations

Ovechkin almost certainly had an agreement in place prior to the Seattle draft. They didn't want to sign him before because they would have had to protect him.

I know there was a lot of noise of Landeskog potentially leaving the team, but I wouldn't be surprised if that scenario was similar.

[bax]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I thought that the expansion draft played a huge role in Ovi signing late. Probably with Landeskog too but less so. There was such a short period of time between the expansion draft and free agency. It was more difficult to iron all the small details out as a result.

Well look at the upcoming batch of free agents and see how many players aren’t re-signed yet.

Malkin
Giroux
Letang
Fleury
Bergeron
Radulov
Forsberg
Barkov
Hertl
Parayko
Zibanejad
Rielly
Klingberg

It’s not unusual that these guys don’t have contracts yet. Sure, some will go UFA but this list will be drastically reduced by next summer.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Or 2 poor seasons for Monahan......At some point you have to cut bait and Tre missed the boat badly after the team collapsed down the stretch and eventually in the playoffs against Colorado. Doing next to nothing to the core forward group for 2 off-season's is unacceptable unless you're a top team in the league.

If the cost of doing business is now moving a guy like Monahan at a perceived loss, then so be it. One thing for certain is that another dismal season from Monahan and not a single team out there will touch him. At least now there is still some mystique due to injury and proximity to a 30 goal season.

I do think one can say that if you trade Monahan now it is at the bottom of his value to this point.
Now could the value get worse? I guess.
But we don't know what they are being offered. Would you move him for a 2nd? how low do you go?

I think it's unrealistic to think that the GM would have traded him after the Avs season, following his career best season.

In retrospect that would have been the right move. But it's completely not practical.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by bax

Well look at the upcoming batch of free agents and see how many players aren’t re-signed yet.

gvitaly Edit: I added their ages next summer(used capfriendly)

Malkin (35)
Giroux (34)
Letang (35)
Fleury (37)
Bergeron (36)
Radulov (35)
Forsberg (27)
Barkov (26)
Hertl (28)
Parayko (29)
Zibanejad (29)
Rielly (28)
Klingberg (29)

It’s not unusual that these guys don’t have contracts yet. Sure, some will go UFA but this list will be drastically reduced by next summer.

I'm not the one beating the Gaudreau is leaving drum. I simply pointed out that the expansion draft played a role in those two players signing when they did.

A lot of the players on your list are in their late 30's and teams are either not as worried about losing them, or they have roots and families with the franchises they are with. In fact some of them might even retire after this season. I don't see Barkov moving anywhere, as he will get a blank cheque and a great situation. As for the rest of the players I'm sure their fan bases are a little concerned themselves.

The biggest criticism of this team is a lack of direction. This team simply refuses to pick one. That's why fans want to see a direction as soon as possible. We were promised big changes, and have yet to see them. I just don't see the appeal for Gaudreau to stay here, especially if the team on the ice offers mediocre results.

The other reason is that fans unlike Treliving operate blind. He has a much better idea of what Gaudreau's camp is asking and how close the negotiations are. The only thing we as fans see is lost leverage because of Gaudreau's NTC. The reason people care about the NTC is the way Iggy left town, and the underwhelming return the Flames got.

[bax]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I'm not the one beating the Gaudreau is leaving drum. I simply pointed out that the expansion draft played a role in those two players signing when they did.

A lot of the players on your list are in their late 30's and teams are either not as worried about losing them, or they have roots and families with the franchises they are with. In fact some of them might even retire after this season. I don't see Barkov moving anywhere, as he will get a blank cheque and a great situation. As for the rest of the players I'm sure their fan bases are a little concerned themselves.

The biggest criticism of this team is a lack of direction. This team simply refuses to pick one. That's why fans want to see a direction as soon as possible. We were promised big changes, and have yet to see them. I just don't see the appeal for Gaudreau to stay here, especially if the team on the ice offers mediocre results.

The other reason is that fans unlike Treliving operate blind. He has a much better idea of what Gaudreau's camp is asking and how close the negotiations are. The only thing we as fans see is lost leverage because of Gaudreau's NTC. The reason people care about the NTC is the way Iggy left town, and the underwhelming return the Flames got.

Iginla shouldn’t be a comparable at all. He was 36 when he was traded out of Calgary.

Somebody said the Flames can not have Gaudreau’s contract status hanging over the team during the season and he needs to be traded.

I was just pointing out that’s not true as this isn’t uncommon at all. Plenty of teams around the league are in the same situation every season.

Florida, Nashville, San Jose, St.Louis, New York, Toronto, and Dallas are all facing the exact same situation with Barkov, Forsberg, Hertl, Parayko, Zibanejad, Rielly, and Klingberg respectively.

[Flashpoint]

Sutter’s presence is being underrated here. Those of us old enough remember how things changed the moment he came aboard with the “Young Guns”. The scrubs and duds suddenly had a leader.

It was a different team with the same players.

[Roof-Daddy]

Man I hope you all are right that Sutter will make that much of a difference to the results.

I mean, I love the improvement in the metrics when he took over, but that doesn't mean much if it doesn't translate to wins.

IMO the roster as it's constructed right now will have to play nearly mistake free hockey and get above average goaltending to be a factor.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Man I hope you all are right that Sutter will make that much of a difference to the results.

I mean, I love the improvement in the metrics when he took over, but that doesn't mean much if it doesn't translate to wins.

That was with what, 20ish games coming on mid season? Imagine now a full training camp and full season with the team under his command.

[Hackey]

Is Sutter really going to make that big of a difference? I'm skeptical but here's to hoping.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Is Sutter really going to make that big of a difference? I'm skeptical but here's to hoping.

It'll probably help that he can now implement his own system. When he took over from Ward, I remember he made a comment about how he wasn't going to change the system they were currently playing, probably because they just didn't have enough time and he was basically flying by the seat of his pants for those last 20 or so games.

Now he finally has a full training camp and a full season to make the changes that he wants. Hopefully this will make a difference.

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

After finishing 2nd overall he should have torn the core up? That would have been ballsy!

It sure would but I think you need a big set of those if you want to build a team to win the Stanley Cup. Dickering around isn't going to get it done.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Is Sutter really going to make that big of a difference? I'm skeptical but here's to hoping.

If anything, he should improve the Flames' chances in the first round of the playoffs. That's where his systems appear to be effective.

But I remain concerned about the scoring output of the team during the regular season. Especially if Markstrom isn't putting up 92.0%+ (which is what goalies often do in successful Sutter systems). And especially without a powerplay quarterback defenseman.

[djsFlames]

Sutter will make a difference, but only so much.

Best case maybe they could win a round against an underwhelming pacific opponent. Still not the end goal.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

It sure would but I think you need a big set of those if you want to build a team to win the Stanley Cup. Dickering around isn't going to get it done.

Is this true or just a clever cliche?
How many teams blew up a roster after finishing near the top of the standings and won a cup a short time later?

[flambers]

I guess, however how many seasons can the GM go with the same core? Especially at forward

I understand it would not be a great idea to move Monahan at this point, he likely has very limited value. They are better off having him finish his contract and hope he rebounds.

However the Flames core just does not work, I don't personally believe they can be a contender with this group

However lots of them had down years, value is likely low.

Makes the Gm's job tough...

[Strange Brew]

There's a whole lot of real estate being blowing it up and making some changes.

I though the rationale behind the 2019 trade deadline was to see what the team could do in the playoffs. The regular season success was unexpected so instead of going balls to the wall with deadline acquisitions (like most teams leading the conference would do) let's get a better idea of the team's ability to deliver when it counts.

I'd say we learned a lot about the team post deadline in 2019. And again the next season. And again the season after that.

You can make changes without blowing it up.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by flambers

I guess, however how many seasons can the GM go with the same core? Especially at forward

I understand it would not be a great idea to move Monahan at this point, he likely has very limited value. They are better off having him finish his contract and hope he rebounds.

However the Flames core just does not work, I don't personally believe they can be a contender with this group

However lots of them had down years, value is likely low.

Makes the Gm's job tough...

Is Hanifin part of that core, he's only been here 3 seasons and it's hard to count the first year as part of the core. Same with Lindholm... would he not be part of the core now

Would Tanev be part of the core now or Markstrom

Tkachuk has only had 3 seasons as part of the core

Core has changed, all the remains are 3 players. If you want to change the core, I'm afraid there will be a lot of disappointed people on this forum if that happens, and Johnny is moved

Since the expansion draft, the core and dressing room have had a drastic facelift. The shortcomings of the old don't fall on Hanifin, Markstrom and Lindholm who will have a much bigger role as our core than any other players on this team IMO

[mrdonkey]

Can’t trade players after a bad season, their value is at a low. Can’t trade players after a good season, they’re too important to the team.

If it were up to some of you this team would never change. In which case I can see why you would want to keep Treliving around. Can’t upset this amazing thing we’ve got going.