Brad Treliving needs to go

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

The main issue is that the roof has been leaky for a few seasons now and it hasn't been addressed. And continues to leak. So now there is a heightened urgency to address the roof which you have neglected. Never a good time to replace the roof, but the occupants (fans) are tired of getting wet.

As for the core pieces/firesale prices, there are teams in similar binds that have core pieces that need to be moved out (see Tarasenko in StL for example). Change of scenery trades can work out for teams. Do I want to have Monahan brought back for another season to listen to him go on and on about what at tight group they are - absolutely not. He's injury prone and in decline, but has a track record of goal scoring which should elicit some level of interest around the league, albeit not at the return you could have received a couple of seasons back. Sometimes you have to realize the value you attach to the player isn't how other teams view him.

You don't have to gut the team but taking one of the core forwards out of the equation would deliver the change that we seek. Is it ideal to have Backlund as a 2nd line C? No, but we haven't got the desired results with the current lineup. Don't underestimate the possibility of addition through subtraction. Opening up a roster spot also allows for the possibility for one of the young kids to surprise, instead of being blocked by an underperforming vet.

All I'm saying is the assumption of inactivity because of not recognizing the need for change, or just not doing anything out of spite to the fan base doesn't really hold water in my mind (bit of a pun there)

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

After finishing 2nd overall he should have torn the core up? That would have been ballsy!

He could have made a change, not necessarily torn the core up, didn't have to be an all or nothing. Wasn't he after Stone and/or Kadri in those days anyways? (My memory is fuzzy). So even Treliving was considering tinkering with the mighty 2nd overall Flames. The idea that no changes could have been made after that season doesn't make sense, especially after getting completely run over in the playoffs.

[bax]

I know it’s frustrating as a fan, but honestly the patient approach is the right one here.

Every executive in the league knows the Flames need to and want to change their core and make a big shake up. They aren’t throwing Brad life preservers, they are throwing anchors. Somebody is going to blink first and hopefully it’s not Treliving.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think you get how hard goal scoring is in the modern era of the NHL.

Coleman is 68th for forwards in the last three years in goals per 60 minutes of five on five ice time.

68 seems good in a league with 31 teams.

I don’t think you got my point. I am well aware that goal scoring is hard. I am also aware that Coleman was a good contributor 5 on 5. I am not saying he doesn’t bring any offense, or that he can’t score goals.

I’m simply saying that calling a guy a 25 goal scorer is premature. He might reach that number, because of chemistry, line-mates and so on. He might also be in the 15-20 range. My point is that 36 points is his most productive season to date. We’re getting a good player, and there’s no need to exaggerate his numbers.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bax

I know it’s frustrating as a fan, but honestly the patient approach is the right one here.

Every executive in the league knows the Flames need to and want to change their core and make a big shake up. They aren’t throwing Brad life preservers, they are throwing anchors. Somebody is going to blink first and hopefully it’s not Treliving.

If you believe this is actually happening, do you think that's going to improve as it becomes more apparent to our management and the league that we're not going anywhere?

[bax]

Originally Posted by nik-

If you believe this is actually happening, do you think that's going to improve as it becomes more apparent to our management and the league that we're not going anywhere?

Yeah, I do. They two most frequently mentioned core players with potential to be moved are Monahan and Tkachuk. I don’t see Tkachuk’s value dropping anytime soon and I can see Monahan rebounding to have a more productive season.

The Flames aren’t in a position where they HAVE to make a trade.

Not to mention Eichel is still just sitting there and everything points to the Flames being involved.

Honestly, trading Monahan for a pick and lesser player or something does nothing for the team right now so why do it

[Calgary4LIfe]

Call me crazy, but I am looking forward to this upcoming season, and this is why:


1) Biggest thing to me is Sutter. I criticized and laughed at the Oilers during their Eakins era because they were poorly coached and their practices were slow, so they ended up not executing during games. This was happening in Calgary under Ward and Gulutzan (not sure about Peters). That's not how Sutter operates, and he is a heavy into systems, analytics, in-game adjustments and a master motivator. I think he is a top 3 coach in the game. A team with the same exact roster can be night and day different under 2 different coaches.


2) Identity - funny that the Athletic came out with that article on the Flames, when for the first time in a couple of years (at least) I feel like the Flames have acquired an identity. What's that? They are going to be a team that is very difficult to play against - both physically and defensively - and they are going to attack quickly.



3) This is a playoff year. Unless something goes off the rails, this team is going to find itself in the playoffs this season, and they are built for playoff hockey.


This team is not a contender, don't get me wrong. I, too, wish for a franchise altering trade that catapults them into 'contender' status. However, I do think that unless things somehow go off the rails, this team will push themselves up to that 2nd tier of teams that can make a bit of noise in the playoffs (hey, maybe the 2nd round!).


I am excited not because I expect them to win the cup (I mean, that would be fantastic, but I would be setting myself up for a practically guaranteed disappointment). I am excited because I do think this team will play better hockey - better structurally, better looking 'efforts', faster, more physical, and more consistent. They are still going to lay some eggs as it happens to every team, but they will lay eggs much less often.


I think for the first time in a long time this team will have some semblance of an identity, and will be a team that is not so hard to cheer for. I think this team is going to surprise many pundits out there.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bax

Yeah, I do. They two most frequently mentioned core players with potential to be moved are Monahan and Tkachuk. I don’t see Tkachuk’s value dropping anytime soon and I can see Monahan rebounding to have a more productive season.

The Flames aren’t in a position where they HAVE to make a trade.

Not to mention Eichel is still just sitting there and everything points to the Flames being involved.

Honestly, trading Monahan for a pick and lesser player or something does nothing for the team right now so why do it

So they're throwing him anchors because they know we need change, but when we're more desperate for change the offers are going to improve? That's just not logical. What's likely happening is they're not throwing him anchors because they know we need change, it's just that no one is willing to pay anything substantial for the players he's willing to trade because other teams have scouts too.

I think the problem is he's not willing to make the actual trades this org needs and wants to keep a large portion of his group together.

[Stanley]

Let's just face the fact that most of our 'core' trade chips are at their weakest trade value this off-season. How the F is Tre supposed to win any trade in this situation, not to mention this current market?

Unless you're making a splash for Eichel, you're losing any other trade imo.

[bax]

Originally Posted by nik-

So they're throwing him anchors because they know we need change, but when we're more desperate for change the offers are going to improve? That's just not logical. What's likely happening is they're not throwing him anchors because they know we need change, it's just that no one is willing to pay anything substantial for the players he's willing to trade because other teams have scouts too.

I think the problem is he's not willing to make the actual trades this org needs and wants to keep a large portion of his group together.

Tkachuk and Monahan are both coming off down seasons. Do you really think that’s the best time to trade them and try to maximize value?

These situations are fluid.

Do you actually believe this is the roster Treliving wants and he’s just sitting on his hands waiting for the season to start? There’s no sense in making a trade just for the sake of it if it leaves your organization in a worse spot.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

I think the problem is he's not willing to make the actual trades this org needs and wants to keep a large portion of his group together.

Based on the failed deals we've heard about, and other reports of players they have been trying to trade - I don't think this is true.
Of course we don't really know, but I think he wants to make changes but the market isn't there for players coming off poor seasons.

[Enoch Root]

I would love to see some change to shake up the core. However, I agree that player values are rock bottom right now, and Treliving is not going to win any player trades he tries to make (Eichel for futures is a different story of course).

I believe Sutter will make a big difference, so I think the better plan is to run with that and see where it goes. If they don't show improvement, blow it up. If they do, player values are better and they are ion a much better position to assess and modify the team.

We have had 4 or 5 years of horrible coaching. Let's see what the team looks like with a good coach before we trade assets at highly discounted values.

[Flames_F.T.W]

I believe many posters are correct in stating that maybe the value isn't there for trading a core player, and I agree we shouldn't be trading people for pennies on the dollar just to change the core.

However, what the hell is holding up a Gaudreau extension then?? We've lost almost all our leverage in a trade now that he can list 5 teams he'll accept a trade to. The delusional part of me hopes it's because Gaudreau might sign for less if we acquire Eichel and he told Tre this. But I doubt it.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

I believe many posters are correct in stating that maybe the value isn't there for trading a core player, and I agree we shouldn't be trading people for pennies on the dollar just to change the core.

However, what the hell is holding up a Gaudreau extension then?? We've lost almost all our leverage in a trade now that he can list 5 teams he'll accept a trade to. The delusional part of me hopes it's because Gaudreau might sign for less if we acquire Eichel and he told Tre this. But I doubt it.

I agree with paragraph 1

What’s holding up a Gaudreau extension is probably the fact that an agreement takes 2 parties. If I’m Gaudreau’s agent, would I encourage him to sign after a down year, and when he has a year left, so effectively negotiate from a position of lower leverage?

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree with paragraph 1

What’s holding up a Gaudreau extension is probably the fact that an agreement takes 2 parties. If I’m Gaudreau’s agent, would I encourage him to sign after a down year, and when he has a year left, so effectively negotiate from a position of lower leverage?

Then Treliving should have traded him. They can't have Gaudreau's UFA status hanging over the team all season.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Well, maybe you think it will never rain again and the roof just had a bad year

Maybe it’s a green roof and will be better with a bit of fertilizer

[bax]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

Then Treliving should have traded him. They can't have Gaudreau's UFA status hanging over the team all season.

Why not? Especially if they are currently negotiating in good faith as has been reported?

Colorado just did it with Landeskog
Washington just did it with Ovechkin

Obviously as a fan I want it done as soon as possible, but it’s not like this is that uncommon.

[Flames_F.T.W]

You may by right. Ovechkin and Landeskog are from overseas though and it's not like they can go play for their home team the way Gaudreau can in Philly. I don't buy into the narrative that Johnny wants to leave Calgary and play in Philly per se, but they're kinda different situations

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Based on the failed deals we've heard about, and other reports of players they have been trying to trade - I don't think this is true.
Of course we don't really know, but I think he wants to make changes but the market isn't there for players coming off poor seasons.

Or 2 poor seasons for Monahan......At some point you have to cut bait and Tre missed the boat badly after the team collapsed down the stretch and eventually in the playoffs against Colorado. Doing next to nothing to the core forward group for 2 off-season's is unacceptable unless you're a top team in the league.

If the cost of doing business is now moving a guy like Monahan at a perceived loss, then so be it. One thing for certain is that another dismal season from Monahan and not a single team out there will touch him. At least now there is still some mystique due to injury and proximity to a 30 goal season.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

You may by right. Ovechkin and Landeskog are from overseas though and it's not like they can go play for their home team the way Gaudreau can in Philly. I don't buy into the narrative that Johnny wants to leave Calgary and play in Philly per se, but they're kinda different situations

Treliving isn’t working with no information though. I’m sure he chats with Johnny’s agent weekly. I’m sure he has a sense of what it would take to keep Gaudreau in Calgary and what Johnny’s intentions are.