The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by shermanator

For me, neither side come out of this looking great.

The CSA gets no sympathy from me at all given their track record over the last few decades, and their complete inability with how to deal with the exponential interest in the game in this country over the last year. Get rid of them all, especially that used car salesman Bontis.

The players get more sympathy from me than the CSA, but it's not a lot. To pull the plug on this friendly when supporters spent significant sums of money isn't a great look; if they really cared about the supporters who got behind them they would have played the game. It's about money, plain and simple, something these particular players do not lack. I do think their demands are reasonable, but they pissed off a lot of people today with their decision to bail on the game.

As for the CSB deal mentioned, it was a deal struck with the CSA for the commercial interests and broadcast rights to the national teams, as well as the group of owners behind the CPL. It is based on the structure in the US (SUM) where the owners of MLS also own commercial interests and broadcast rights to their national teams. The main difference between the two is simply the amount of revenue coming in; CSB gets but a fraction what SUM gets, and the Canadian players want a similar arrangement that their American counterparts get but there isn't the kind of money available to pull it off.

What people may not realize is that CSB invested 9 figures into the men's professional game and national teams at a time when no one gave a ####. Without them, there is no CPL, no Cavalry, there are no new sponsorships for the national team, and this window's games are being broadcast on a Youtube stream with a handheld camera. The deal's relevance on this World Cup run is minimal to nonexistant, but the relevance towards the long term sustainability of the professional game and national teams is critical. Albeit, they would have still had their deal with Umbro and I could have gotten a customized jersey for $100 which I miss.

I think the saddest thing about this situation is simply that most people just don't care, and the end result of today is that some people who just got into the sport are going to go back to not caring.

Okay, back to your ranting Browna.

Sherm, was this from a Press Release? Tens of millions in Seed Money? Can you cite this, please?

[Yoho]

Screw the players I hope they start playing with scabs.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Sherm, was this from a Press Release? Tens of millions in Seed Money? Can you cite this, please?

I don't have insight into how much directly funnelled to the national team, but from the CSB's statement:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533602123996221440

CPL clubs have operating expenses of about $4 million a year. (Source: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/cpl...nces-1.5941457) We're in year 4 and there are 8 teams, so the non pandemic years puts us at $92 million there. Plus startup costs, infrastructure costs, etc. I've been told Cavalry have put over $10 million into their stadium.

[shermanator]

So about the importance of face-to-face meetings. Hopefully the progress is Bontis resigning....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533877034123833345

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by browna

Yeah not villifying them per se, moreso the CSA for ceding so much control over money which has got us to this point. Again, the CSA is crying about their $25M budget, which they couldn't grow because of incompetence, but there is more money now, they just can't access it becuase of this deal.

And now you're left with a national governing body with little control over financial and business matters, which given the CSA's track record, is not necessarily bad thing, but the CSB is a for profit entity and the people that run that now, in 5 years and in 10 years, now have the controls over everything under the CSA, so that can also be a slippery slope for power and influence with no checks in place. But day to day the CSA still makes the decisions or lack of decisions when it comes to various NT things all the way down to grass roots, they just have a sugar daddy propping them up.



The team made it in spite of obstacles of the CSA and in full part thanks to Herdman, and a global pandemic which reset qualifying, becuase they weren't going to make it under the old system. That decision can also be attributed to a Canadian as current CONCACAF president.

This had to come to light and change and if it took a friendly match against a nobody forefit to do it, fine for long term.

Easy path forward here is that the CSB will step up with some extra money and the CSA will pat them and themselves on the back.

Watched a bit of the presser back again and Bontis is exactly the type.of arrgoant, slimy spin doctor that's been the prevailing attitude at the CSA for decades, which is why nothing gets done or done half-assed.

appreciate the background...I was not totally familiar with it, especially the CSB part of things.

Ultimately, you are right in that the players and coaches and support staff are the ones ultimately responsible for success.

I just hope that a fair deal is reached that everyone is reasonably happy with...

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by shermanator

So about the importance of face-to-face meetings. Hopefully the progress is Bontis resigning....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533877034123833345

He should be turfed just for saying Cutter 25 times during the presser. And he's not even sure who is in the World Cup.

What a dolt.

[Jimmy Stang]

After that press conference, I think that Bontis' ticket back to Toronto was probably the first item on the players' list.

Ignored the issue for months, showed up expecting to get his way, players told him to shove it, had a hissy fit press conference, got sent home. Productive weekend.

[PeteMoss]

Nothing against OneSoccer - but Canada Soccer should be working their way out of that deal and into one like Hockey Canada has with TSN and Canada Basketball started with Sportsnet.

The OneSoccer thing was fine while no other options existed. But there is a ton of chances for exposure out there that having games on a super niche streaming service isn't going to bring in.

Edit: Just saw the OneSoccer deal is for 10 years from 2019. ooof.

[CroFlames]

If Canada can't afford to treat our star footballers with the bare minimum that their peer pro athletes are used to, then that is a problem with the CSA and not the players.

There have been countless stories of ineptitude over the years. It's time the players took a stand, especially while their profile is high at home.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by shermanator

I don't have insight into how much directly funnelled to the national team, but from the CSB's statement:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533602123996221440

CPL clubs have operating expenses of about $4 million a year. (Source: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/cpl...nces-1.5941457) We're in year 4 and there are 8 teams, so the non pandemic years puts us at $92 million there. Plus startup costs, infrastructure costs, etc. I've been told Cavalry have put over $10 million into their stadium.

Is this just operating costs for the teams? I assume they are expecting a return on that eventually and not just endlessly going to fork money out.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Is this just operating costs for the teams? I assume they are expecting a return on that eventually and not just endlessly going to fork money out.

The $4 million is operating costs for each club, and for sure they'd want a return on that investment at some point.

[CroFlames]

I don't know.

Canada Soccer Business just sounds shady.

Like does an entity named Deutsche Fussball Business exist? English Football Business? Or do high-functioning FAs just handle commercial business on their own.

It's like they constructed this entity to purposely make the business side of football in this country murky.

[shermanator]

Andddd they're back training...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533927219994578944

[CroFlames]

I wonder if Herdman is acting like an intermediary between CSA and the Players.

I'm convinced there is nothing he can't do, so it wouldn't surprise if he ask his players to put aside the off-field stuff and train, while at the same time he's talking to his bosses at CSA to smarten the #### up and treat the players with the respect and professionalism they deserve.

Good guy Herdman.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I don't know.

Canada Soccer Business just sounds shady.

Like does an entity named Deutsche Fussball Business exist? English Football Business? Or do high-functioning FAs just handle commercial business on their own.

It's like they constructed this entity to purposely make the business side of football in this country murky.

For sure it sounds shady, but its modeled after the USSF / SUM relationship in the US. Not saying that's a good thing or not, just pointing it out. It has been a very successful model for growing the game in the US. But it's very different than European models.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

After that press conference, I think that Bontis' ticket back to Toronto was probably the first item on the players' list.

Ignored the issue for months, showed up expecting to get his way, players told him to shove it, had a hissy fit press conference, got sent home. Productive weekend.

His whole arrive late, “I’m a soccer fan”, “they know where to find us”, leave on the first plane out of town schtick is rich. He’s gotten exposed to a pretty impressive degree over these last few days. This would have been a lot messier situation if he had handled it like a professional IMO. All he’s done is solidified the vast majority of support for the players which will likely cause this situation to end a lot sooner than it may have otherwise. Talk about 4D chess.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I wonder if Herdman is acting like an intermediary between CSA and the Players.

I'm convinced there is nothing he can't do, so it wouldn't surprise if he ask his players to put aside the off-field stuff and train, while at the same time he's talking to his bosses at CSA to smarten the #### up and treat the players with the respect and professionalism they deserve.

Good guy Herdman.

There's also much larger ramifications for not playing a sanctioned nations league match over a friendly.

[ditty]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There's also much larger ramifications for not playing a sanctioned nations league match over a friendly.

Not playing Thursday's Nations League match would likely result in Canada getting booted from Nations League and would include a hefty fine. Much different than canceling a friendly, where you just lose the ticket revenue (not that that is a small thing).

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ditty

Not playing Thursday's Nations League match would likely result in Canada getting booted from Nations League and would include a hefty fine. Much different than canceling a friendly, where you just lose the ticket revenue (not that that is a small thing).

Nations League is also Gold Cup qualifying.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

His whole arrive late, “I’m a soccer fan”, “they know where to find us”, leave on the first plane out of town schtick is rich. He’s gotten exposed to a pretty impressive degree over these last few days. This would have been a lot messier situation if he had handled it like a professional IMO. All he’s done is solidified the vast majority of support for the players which will likely cause this situation to end a lot sooner than it may have otherwise. Talk about 4D chess.

Calling the press "you fine people" twice.
Not knowing if the field was set for the WC (as an argument for why there was a rush from the players)
The sly middle finger to the guy from the Toronto Star asking the tough question.
Not naming the one board member sanctioned that there has to be an alumni player. Maybe he doesn't know who it is.
Saying he and Earl both played soccer.
Westhead said he had his handup and got ignored at the presser.

Kevin Lowe had his similar infamous press conference, which went about the same becuase both guys have such massive egos and believe everything they say is right, and believe the media should be clapping at their responses..
when that doesn happen and when they get challenged they start talking louder and more emotional and things go downhill quick. There was a point there when Bontis had his arms in the air for 20.seconds.

The CSA has been able to hide in anonymity for decades, popping it's head out to the public if a team does well or qualifying looks to be going well. It's allowed that organization to operate in its own incestuous ways, and making mistakes and not supporting players or program with no fear of reprisal.

Not sure how they didn't get ahead of the fact that they don't control the revenues, wasn't going to come out at some point...that CSB didn't just have a business arrangement for marketing and business structure, they are the ones that get the revenue from Fifa and pass what they feel like to the CSA.

Point was made and CSA exposed, so well done.