Explosion near Stadium in Paris, multiple shootings and hostage taking...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Byrns

I don't see many Cubans or North Koreans blowing themselves up.

Probably because most Cubans and North Koreans live in extreme poverty. Most middle-eastern terrorists are well-funded.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

MOD EDIT: Not a real quote.

Apologies if i had done further research i would descovered that comment was not made. Entirely my fault for posting that portion as a said quote by Trudeau.

[Kavvy]

What a ####ty thing to happen.

I hope our brave military isn't forced to go to war and risk more lives over this, but....

We are NATO and I hope we are strong together.

[Flash Walken]

Part of the response to this has to be a Western confrontation with Saudi Arabia and the radical Wahhabist poison they have pumped out into the world that is the driving force behind this radicalization and the funding to carry it out on an otherwise global scale.

It's not refugees. It's not just about integration or inequality. It's about a very rich autocracy that uses it's wealth to spread a toxic form of fascist ideology throughout the world and actively undermines western security.

Until Western nations come together to address this head on, this radicalism will continue to interrupt our society.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

.
Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments to the degree that uneducated people, living under a violent, socially repressive regime of disinformation will, especially those that find justification for every action they take in the poetry found in an ancient book. Education leads to curiosity, leads to questioning, leads to rational thought before action. I'm talking in terms of millions of people, and not individuals, as a general and not strict rule. Millions of rationally thinking people must be ISIS's worst nightmare. Millions of rationally thinking women and they would pass out. (I didn't mean that to be derogatory)

Education separate of religion would be a long term solution to the degree that it was a solution in the West. Corsi is right, empowerment of women is equally transformative. The Caliphate is living in the Dark Ages. It will come out of it the same way we did, 500 years later.

I realize I just made an even bigger philosophical and historical premise to be argued about, but taken simplistically, I believe that I am right. Sorry, to everyone, for slightly derailing.

To use a really stupid sports term, the middle east and islam are in a 500 year losing streak. They were ahead of us 500 years ago, they should still be ahead of us, not having to do it 500 years later.

If you go back 1000 years Islam invented everything while Europe was a dirty and violent place. But if you go back just 500 years, Europe went through the renaissance and invented the printing press and other inventions, the Muslims were burning books and fighting each other.
They are still fighting each other.

[Itse]

Random thoughts:
- I have a friend in Paris, who was earlier checked as "safe" on Facebook, but is not anymore. I have no idea why. She hasn't updated her Facebook, but then again I'm not sure if she even uses it very regurarly. (At least she rarely posts anything I see.) I'm a bit weirded out by that. It's not like she's in any way close, but still. A really nice, smart girl. Really hope she's okay.

- The targets include a soccer game between two major NATO countries, played in the national stadium of France, while the French president was there. Another target was a rock concert by an American band in a (locally) famous venue. I'm sure the terrorist are very happy with their pickings.

- These attacks resemble the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Those attacks were made by Lashkar-e-Taiba, an extremist islamist group. Another similar attack is the Westgate shopping mall attack in Nairobi, perpetrated by al-Shabaab, another extremist islamist group with connections to al-Qaeda. Since all these attacks have been spectacularly succesful by terrorist standards, they're going to keep trying these big attacks.

- As for the relationship between ISIS and al-Qaeda, ISIS was originally a part of al-Qaeda, but al-Qaeda cut ties with them in early 2014. AFAIK mostly as a result of an internal power struggle. Mostly it's the same s**t under different flags. Both consider themselves global organizations, which is why they're so interesting to us in the west. (Unlike the numerous extremist islamist organizations which are locally focused.)

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

To use a really stupid sports term, the middle east and islam are in a 500 year losing streak. They were ahead of us 500 years ago, they should still be ahead of us, not having to do it 500 years later.

If you go back 1000 years Islam invented everything while Europe was a dirty and violent place. But if you go back just 500 years, Europe went through the renaissance and invented the printing press and other inventions, the Muslims were burning books and fighting each other.
They are still fighting each other.

Islam invented everything? You can not make a statement like that without more context. 1000 years ago? How about Islam has not evolved in a thousand years? Granted that statement would need context too.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Islam invented everything? You can not make a statement like that without more context. 1000 years ago? How about Islam has not evolved in a thousand years? Granted that statement would need context too.

They invented Coffee, Cameras and Algebra! They can look at the moon and determine Ramadan to the minute!

[Itse]

France 24 reports seem to have settled at "at least 120 dead", with about 80 of those in the Bataclan concert hall. Number of attack locations seems to have settled at six. The targets also include an Italian restaurant and a Cambodian restaurant, just to add to international flavour.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Dion

There are times I wish I was never born and didn't have to live in a world full of hate. This is one of those days.

You're looking at it very wrong. The reason we are all here today is because the hateful are few and the caring a great many. Millions if not billions of messages of love and solidarity have been poured out for the dead and grieving. Compare that to the hateful actions of a handful of confused and brainwashed men. Hate is tiny, though it's effects can be large. Life is fragile and it's fair to hate that a few can take so much away, but don't lose sight of the overwhelming love around us.

[N-E-B]

The worst part is those people were just trying to have a good time at a show. They weren't hurting anyone. Just sickening.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

What a ####ty thing to happen.

I hope our brave military isn't forced to go to war and risk more lives over this, but....

We are NATO and I hope we are strong together.

Nato, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and every other country on the planet should supply troops and systematically kill these #######s by going town to town until they are reduced to a bad memory. There will be collateral deaths of the innocent but not nearly as much if nothing is done.

It has to stop and it needs to stop now.

[Itse]

Even though I know that's how tons of people react to shock, it's still weird to see/hear how calmly the eyewitnesses are commenting on the attacks. "We ended up right in front of the guy, but he didn't shoot us so we managed to escape." *shrugs*

Must be a truly surreally horrible experience.

[calgarywinning]

I think it is a shame and I am sad for the people that were slaughtered today by the cowards.

Considering we are just after remembrance day, my grandfather who fought in the world war II is dead but would find these acts by these suicide bombers horrific.

However, he told me about the brutality of war. How, when someone decides to be evil it must be met with an opposing force that overpowers it. It's a scary concept. The Israelis who are on there little mound of dust in the middle east understand it. I don't think western or european society understands it. Allowing and accepting this as on ongoing reality is not possible in my mind.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

If you go back 1000 years Islam invented everything while Europe was a dirty and violent place. But if you go back just 500 years, Europe went through the renaissance and invented the printing press and other inventions, the Muslims were burning books and fighting each other.
They are still fighting each other.

You don't have to go back 500 years to find Europeans burning books and fighting each other.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by T@T

Nato, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and every other country on the planet should supply troops and systematically kill these #######s by going town to town until they are reduced to a bad memory. There will be collateral deaths of the innocent but not nearly as much if nothing is done.

It has to stop and it needs to stop now.

And then every person who loses a family member or friends to the slaughter becomes another one

[Itse]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

I think it is a shame and I am sad for the people that were slaughtered today by the cowards.

Considering we are just after remembrance day, my grandfather who fought in the world war II is dead but would find these acts by these suicide bombers horrific.

However, he told me about the brutality of war. How, when someone decides to be evil it must be met with an opposing force that overpowers it. It's a scary concept. The Israelis who are on there little mound of dust in the middle east understand it. I don't think western or european society understands it. Allowing and accepting this as on ongoing reality is not possible in my mind.

If the goal is not just to survive, but also to outlive the threat., the Israeli strategy is kind of questionable, as Israel is still as much a target of terrorism as ever. Were other options available for them? Unfortunaly it's impossible to know. Maybe a more diplomatic Israel would be less antagonizing. Maybe not.

As for the problem of ISIS (whether or not they're behind the attack), it's an issue that would have been solved long ago, if it wasn't for politics. ISIS isn't that big, they could be taken. But nobody wants to risk those areas (and thus all that oil) falling to the hands of their other enemies or opponents. Russians and US don't want the other sides allies to win, countries with Kurd minorities want to avoid a rise of a powerful Kurdistan, etc. etc.

Global powergames override such concerns as threat of terrorism 10 times out of 10.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

And then every person who loses a family member or friends to the slaughter becomes another one

I'm just gonna put it out there that until the families and the friends start to kill these people (their sons, daughters) that perpetrate these cowardly crimes against innocent humans in the name of islam, ISIS, they will have to be in the line of fire. All wars are won when the civilians rise and say no more. In the case of these extremes I hold more than their individual accountable because of the level of pure cowardice.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

And then every person who loses a family member or friends to the slaughter becomes another one

Then kill the whole family then, their family members were killed because of terrorism, if they want to join them give them an invite. Seriously, did every German who lost a loved one after WWII start killing people?

When are people going to understand there isn't a diplomatic way to end this, these people are stupid enough to follow a 1400 year set of laws, they don't care if they die because they think paradise awaits them.

Send them all to paradise.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by T@T

Then kill the whole family then, their family members were killed because of terrorism, if they want to join them give them an invite. Seriously, did every German who lost a loved one after WWII start killing people?

When are people going to understand there isn't a diplomatic way to end this, these people are stupid enough to follow a 1400 year set of laws, they don't care if they die because they think paradise awaits them.

Send them all to paradise.

And when are people going to understand there isn't a min diplomatic way to end this. You're not going to end it. You need to minimize it