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Old 08-28-2020, 11:37 AM   #4701
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Can you provide any examples of what you're "pretty left" on?
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:40 AM   #4702
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Originally Posted by Magnum PEI View Post
Again, more insults and derision. For stating facts and trying to bring balance.
There's one particular post in the FOI thread that instantly made you a terrible person. You seem to not know which one it is, which means that rhetoric flows freely from you.

Saying "I'm liberal" is not and has not ever been justification for this behaviour. I tend to not forget which posters have made blatantly bigoted posts and then try to backpedal.
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:40 AM   #4703
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What don't you support about BLM specifically? Please provide a list and clear points.
Well I can answer this, no one can argue that lives dont matter, therefore its the Black he dont like, simples.
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:48 AM   #4704
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I haven't said anything remotely racist. A Hispanic kid killed two white people. How would it be racist to provide balanced facts, sources and video of the event?

There are a lot of disingenuous and/or misinformed posts on this page and the last, and also some that remove all context and nuance. So I will just say, do some research, not just of this event, but the others that have been pushed by the media over the last three months. Draw your own conclusions.
This has already been pointed out. Characterising a Black shooting victim as a criminal based on his charges and brushing it off as "he's not even dead!" is one thing. Characterizing a White shooter (he's White, more context on being listed as Hispanic can be found here, I have my suspicions about where you saw that he was listed as Hispanic in the first place, but it's from someone on the far-right who I assuming you do not follow as someone "pretty left" so feel free to provide where you found that information) as "a good kid" based on his charges, is another.

The stark disparity in your descriptions of these two individuals is far from balanced in any reasonable interpretation of the word. So, you should clearly see why people assume some level of racism when a Black person is labelled a criminal for his charges, and a White person is labelled a good kid for his much more serious charges.
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:04 PM   #4705
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The problem with Magnum and the like is that racists will never admit that they are racist.

And even if they do, they'd be like "so I guess having a different view point is now considered racist huh??".

I fully expect the step is: So I guess not liking black people is racist now? That's a slippery slope!
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:23 PM   #4706
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I've tried to make sense of the videos I've seen of the Rittenhouse shootings. And from what I gather it's this:

Some teenager Trump supporter wants to "protect Americans" so grabs his bigass gun. Basically to play soldier.

Some idiot (from the videos I've seen..If true...The first guy shot and killed seems a little unhinged and from the clip I don't even know whose side he is on) is seen chasing Rittenhouse.Rittsnhouse shoots him.

Then there is footage of Rittenhouse calling someone on his phone but he runs off and a gang chases him down where he shoots two more people.

The cops then finally come and he gives him self up and is arrested...Eventually. (Great police work there)

In the end it is just a perfect picture of how messed up America is.

Rittenhouse is a product of his environment. He is the American poster boy of the modern USA.

Just like you don't blame the child raised in a violent home who eventually acts out violently. How can you blame the youths of America when this is what they have been raised on?
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:56 PM   #4707
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The real irony of this conversation is that only one person hasn't been proved to do anything criminal, we know full well the white kid has broken the law multiple times just schlepping his gun to a riot across state lines, he also killed 2 people and seriously wounded a third.

The guy the cops shot was not a criminal, never had been, didnt have a gun (although as we have seen, clearly having a gun is not proof you are a criminal or a threat in Kenosha, hell you can wander the streets strapping a smoking AR15 having just shot 3 people and you aint considered a threat to the cops) no the guy they shot was not a criminal, his ex had called the cops on him, and far be it from me to minimise the reality of domestic abuse but my ex called the cops on me once for trying to get my winter boots that I had forgotten, and I have never raised a hand to a woman in my life, seperations are messy and angry, he may have been guilty of breaking the law for the first time in his life apparently or the whole thing might have been dropped a week later as is often the case if the cops hadnt shot him as he was trying to leave with his kids.
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:58 PM   #4708
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What about those same people, if Trump doesn't win.
I think the converted are likely already damned. But 4 more years means 4 more years of Trump being held up as an exemplar for a broad swath of American society, and 4 more years' worth of kids growing up idolizing or mimicking him.

Even if they don't look up to him, they will learn lessons from him like: cheaters prosper, never admit fault, never take responsibility, blame others, lying is okay if it serves your ends, etc.

I feel badly for the Rittenhouses of the US. In many ways he strikes me as being like lots of young teens who lack a male role-model, and seek out a way to overcome their own vulnerability and insecurity by attaching themselves to things with superficial power - gangs, guns, militias (in his case). Kids like him are going to waste their - and others' - lives. He won't be the last of them.

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I think this Rittenhouse thing is maybe the most ominous news story of the year. The split between the groups defending him as the "good guy with a gun" vs the group seeing him as the terrorist and the bicep guy as "good guy with gun" is pretty ridiculous.

I would not be surprised to see a pretty extreme reaction no matter what the courts end up sentencing this guy to.

I agree. I think the scenes playing out in the streets of Kenosha, as recorded in all those videos, will play out repeatedly across America this Fall, particularly if the US election is corrupted (which it likely will be, at least in the eyes of many) and if Covid roars back and shuts down schools and employment. That's why it's so ominous.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:33 PM   #4709
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1299424502766538758
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Old 08-28-2020, 02:35 PM   #4710
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Yeah I don't think he's too big a flight risk given that he'll never walk again.
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:12 PM   #4711
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Yeah I don't think he's too big a flight risk given that he'll never walk again.
Still pretty despicable this all had to go public before they would remove the handcuffs that chained him in his hospital bed knowing that he would never walk again.

So disgusting and further evidence that the police just don't get it.
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:20 PM   #4712
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Saw this on Reddit and it's extremely relevant to the riot vs protest discussions here:

This cartoon from 1967

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Old 08-28-2020, 03:28 PM   #4713
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Following on the issue of why the Rittenhouse story may be so ominous to some, there's this today in the Washington Post:

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The goal of the rally was to oppose the deployment of federal agents to quell protests in American cities — and to register new Democratic voters here in the heart of conservative East Texas.

But it had hardly begun when hundreds of conservative counterprotesters and supporters of President Trump, many with military-style rifles slung over their shoulders, swarmed the town square and began pushing and shoving and yelling obscenities.

One man punched Democrat Nancy Nichols in the chest, she said, and three others pinned her husband against Tyler's war memorial. Other armed men were positioned around the edges of the square in military-style defensive formation, their hands clutching their rifles.

"They were yelling Democrats are f---ing idiots and Democrats are demons," recalled Nichols, 65. "It makes me feel angry that this is allowed and that our police are allowing this kind of hate-filled atmosphere to take over."

...


In a spate of exchanges that have spanned from Kalamazoo, Mich., and Bloomington, Ind., to Chicago and Portland, Ore., people on both sides of the United States’ political and cultural divide have been filmed exchanging punches, beating one another with sticks and flagpoles, or standing face-to-face with weapons, often with police appearing to be little more than observers.

...

“This isn’t a politician’s fight — this is a people’s fight,” said Martin Holsome, who sits on the Rusk, Tex., town council and is aligned with several armed Texas groups. “What we have seen over the past six months to a year has conditioned us for what is going to happen, and you can either condition yourself to be prepared for it or you can condition yourself to be subject to it.”

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Old 08-28-2020, 03:51 PM   #4714
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Yeah I don't think he's too big a flight risk given that he'll never walk again.


Sorry I had to post it. John Callahan was quadriplegic. It's a tragedy that Blake will be too.
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:50 PM   #4715
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Following on the issue of why the Rittenhouse story may be so ominous to some, there's this today in the Washington Post:
I posted this in the FOI but it pertains to exactly what I said earlier today.

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Thats not the best breakdown . Especially at the end where he tries to justify Kyles actions with the arguement " protesters have been beating people to death these past few months" . Which is consistently been a narrative on social media that odten gera removed because this has been proven a false narrative .

The closest thing to those remarks was a man in Dallas was severely injured trying to protect his business but then chased proteators down the street with a sword.

They also try to portray that narrative because of events currently happining in Portland . In Portland right now it **seems** police have given an unofficial blessing to militias to take over the handling of protesters in some situations. The tactics there are when groups like the Proud boys( White supremacy group) show up the police will with draw back from the area . The proud boys show up with Aluminum bats and will start brawling with protesters. Now this has been a problem for a few reasons. These groups have been seen and filmed interacting with the police in the same manner that Rittenhouse earlier in the evening before the shooting on nightly basis in some cases. The next controversial peice to this tho is The proud boys have as part of their mantra that cops should be killed and tortured . The optics of that alone has been troubling as it appears the cops would rather the company and * Unofficial * help of white supremacy militias that want and have tried to kill cops in the past. I touched on how in the past there is a deep connection with police getting and asking for assistance from white supremacy militias.

Its troubling to see history unfold exactly as it has before.
People protest peacefully to start, then police instigated violence, that sparks more protests, heads of government start to classify protestors as violent criminals ,that sparks further police, that causes greater protests, unfortunately when mass mass gatheringa happen it generally dissolves in parts of the protests into rioting . Rioting happens whether It's mass protesting or mass celebrations for some reason humans turn into animals in mass gatherings. Then rioting and protestors feel the need to protect them selfs from police so they can practice there first amendment rights. The militias then show up. Then the real violence starts . Then the sides fight it out just long enough that the govermnet eventually enacts juat enough changes to appease the protestors to get the violence to stop before the violence get completely steered towards the government. Then theres a time of peace where the oppression of a minority group until again protests start again and the cycle repeats itself.


This is rinse and repeat throughout American history. It's all the American system really knows. This is how there Country was founded . Oppression lead to protesting lead to government suppression which lead to arming the masses for self defense which lead to a full out war.

This has been a 245 year old cycle and just this issue alone of Black Lives Matter has almost been an issue for just as long. With the same results everytime in the last few hundred years of bringing up the issue of mistreatment of Afican Americans.

The admenments for 1 and 2 are not a coincidence.
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:47 PM   #4716
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Ah, I see now that it’s been revealed that the reports of him having a gun were false, we’ve moved on to “well they should still act as though he has a gun!”

Perhaps if they treated alleged criminal Jacob Blake as he walked away from cops without a gun the same as they treated actual killer Kyle Rittenhouse while he walked towards them with a gun, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. I mean maybe it ends up the same, I guess, but probably not.

It’s just interesting that the usual suspects are out, again, justifying the shooting of a Black man any way they can. Unfortunately for then, we’re also seeing a White killer who got the complete opposite treatment, and none of them have a problem with it, so it becomes pretty clear what this is actually all about for some people. They’re just a bit afraid to say it.

I want to revisit this because it’s illustrates how easy it is to create your own narrative on posters that “because certain posters didn’t say anything to condone the white kid” this obviously means they are a racist and that somehow gives licence to call this name with little to no proof.

This is outrageous and it’s why the thread has gone dead in the last day or so when arguments are reduced to name calling, it does almost nothing to stimulate the actual conversation.


My bone of contention is that I have next to no compassion for those that choose to resist arrest because I think the police have an incredibly difficult job.
I disagree it’s as cut and dry as it’s made out to be in this forum.

I could see 100 videos of whites and I could see 100 videos of blacks resisting arrest and I have the same compassion level for both.

But creating narratives and hurling hurtful names unchecked is really disappointing.

Being called a racist is a big deal and it better have more proof than “you didn’t say much about that guy so..”
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:50 PM   #4717
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Even if they don't look up to him, they will learn lessons from him like: cheaters prosper, never admit fault, never take responsibility, blame others, lying is okay if it serves your ends, etc.
Are you talking about the President, or the PM of Canada?

Could be either. Not saying it’s great in US, but we also need to make some changes here in Canada.
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Old 08-28-2020, 10:16 PM   #4718
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I don't think I fully understood just how far to the right many Albertans are until the last few days. This place feels like it has a cockroach problem.
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Old 08-28-2020, 10:18 PM   #4719
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I don't think I fully understood just how far to the right many Albertans are until the last few days. This place feels like it has a cockroach problem.
You should see the rest of the internet.
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Old 08-28-2020, 10:19 PM   #4720
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You should see the rest of the internet.
I always assume those are Russian bots.
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