2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Moneyhands23]

God damn this salery cap Canadian dollar no trading bull ####!

That is all...

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's not about stats. It's about skills. Even when he was putting up under 40 Points in previous seasons he had the offensive skill where his production didn't make sense. Right now his production makes more sense and the Jagr/Barkov line is one of the most dominant in the league because of their skill. It's not luck. Maybe he goes cold and finishes the season with 58 points. But 58 points while being dominant are worth more than the "Phil Kessel 80" that gets overvalued.

This was a #2 overall pick taken ahead of Seth Jones here. We're not talking about Josh Jooris.

I was responding to this.

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He's 20 years old and is 4 points under a PPG. He'd have to fall off hard to finish under 60 or even 70.

Bit misleading. At his current pace hes a 50 point player. But yes I agree with what you're saying he brings more to his game than points. Bridge contract is probably risky. Could back fire like PK. As I said I don't think hes earned it yet but chances are he will in the future. I think he has a lot more potential than O'Reilly who did get a similar dollar figure.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I was responding to this.



Bit misleading. At his current pace hes a 50 point player.

No, misleading is using his stats as an 18/19 year old as a cumulative representation of his value. Monahan as a 19 year old had 34 points in 75 games. Bennett as a 19 year old is on pace for 33 points. Draisaitl as a 19 year old was on pace for 20 points.

None of that really reflects any of the players' values - 20 year old Monahan dropped 62, 20 year old Draisaitl over a PPG, and 20 year old Barkov is 4 points under a PPG. Bennett sure doesn't play like a 33 point forward either despite the stats. Their 19 year old play isn't a useful sample.

Since Feb 27th 2015 (the Jagr trade, though Barkov was still 19 then):

48GP
18G
20A
18.8 Minutes Per Game

That is a 31G/35A pace for more than half a season and by the end of this season the sample will only be bigger. That's what I'm looking at when I say Barkov is a 1C. Are those 1C numbers? Only if the two-way play is there, and the two-way play is elite.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

God damn this salery cap Canadian dollar no trading bull ####!

That is all...

That's a convenient excuse. Retaining salary should eliminate any concerns with going over the cap. Burke pushed on this to enable more trades to be made.

What appears to be holding up trades is the reluctance of teams to trade away young talent as more and more teams are buying into the draft and develop philosophy. Teams that don't subscribe to this (like Pittsburgh) have traded away picks and prospects to the point where there is nothing left to move. And of course nmc and Ntc further limit movement. Lastly, there are a lot of rookie gms that don't want to make mistakes. Also Have to wonder if the breakdown of the old boys gm club that used to exist also makes it harder to make deals.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Agreed - they can go for a bridge deal but it may end up costing them more in the long-run. Anyone who watches the Panthers closely knows that Barkov is their best and most improtant player.

Barkov is their most important forward. I would say Ekblad is their most important player. That kid is for real.

[BigTuna]

The Bridge deal screwed the Habs big time with Subban.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Barkov is their most important forward. I would say Ekblad is their most important player. That kid is for real.

Ekblad is for real, and someday he'll be their most important player. But I think you're jumping the gun. Right now Ekblad is used sparingly in an offensive role with carefully selected competntion. Willie Mitchell clearly handles the tough assignments on their team the way Brodie and Gio do on our team. But he's put in a position to succeed on a well-constructed team. If you look at the deployment charts for four teams - Calgary, Chicago, Boston, and Florida, you can see that Ekblad is the most sheltered of the big minutes defensemen on any of the four teams including his own:



But that's unlike Barkov:



Barkov is a true #1 Center. He's relied upon more heavily than Jonathan Toews! Only Bergeron is more heavily relied upon.

[hockey.modern]

Not much, but Treliving is at the World Juniors. Do GMs usually go to these for fun or scouting assignment?

[Svartsengi]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Not much, but Treliving is at the World Juniors. Do GMs usually go to these for fun or scouting assignment?

They will do both. A number of good draft eligible prospects are on showcase especially for Finland. Flames do have 3 prospects playing its a chance to evaluate them against high level competition. May be meeting face to face with European based scouts to get there input on other European based players too.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

No, misleading is using his stats as an 18/19 year old as a cumulative representation of his value. Monahan as a 19 year old had 34 points in 75 games. Bennett as a 19 year old is on pace for 33 points. Draisaitl as a 19 year old was on pace for 20 points.

None of that really reflects any of the players' values - 20 year old Monahan dropped 62, 20 year old Draisaitl over a PPG, and 20 year old Barkov is 4 points under a PPG. Bennett sure doesn't play like a 33 point forward either despite the stats. Their 19 year old play isn't a useful sample.

Since Feb 27th 2015 (the Jagr trade, though Barkov was still 19 then):

48GP
18G
20A
18.8 Minutes Per Game

That is a 31G/35A pace for more than half a season and by the end of this season the sample will only be bigger. That's what I'm looking at when I say Barkov is a 1C. Are those 1C numbers? Only if the two-way play is there, and the two-way play is elite.

I never used his stats as an 18/19 year old I used his stats from this year. I agree with you he's a great prospect and probably gonna be a hell of a player in the near future. Just because he has 23 points in 27 games though doesn't mean he's a 70 point player. He's a 70 point player when he gets 70 points. That doesn't mean I don't think he will turn into that but the jump from 23 to 70 is quite a bit.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ekblad is for real, and someday he'll be their most important player. But I think you're jumping the gun. Right now Ekblad is used sparingly in an offensive role with carefully selected competntion. Willie Mitchell clearly handles the tough assignments on their team the way Brodie and Gio do on our team. But he's put in a position to succeed on a well-constructed team. If you look at the deployment charts for four teams - Calgary, Chicago, Boston, and Florida, you can see that Ekblad is the most sheltered of the big minutes defensemen on any of the four teams including his own:



But that's unlike Barkov:



Barkov is a true #1 Center. He's relied upon more heavily than Jonathan Toews! Only Bergeron is more heavily relied upon.

Looks to me from your chart like Mikael Backlund is also better than Toews. These corsi charts are nice and all but they don't tell the whole story.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I never used his stats as an 18/19 year old I used his stats from this year. I agree with you he's a great prospect and probably gonna be a hell of a player in the near future. Just because he has 23 points in 27 games though doesn't mean he's a 70 point player. He's a 70 point player when he gets 70 points. That doesn't mean I don't think he will turn into that but the jump from 23 to 70 is quite a bit.

Prospect?
He isn't a prospect by any definition
In my opinion he's the next Datsyuk

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Looks to me from your chart like Mikael Backlund is also better than Toews.

First of all neither chart shows anything about who's better than who. It just shows who's being used how on their own team. Second Backlund is being used against lesser competition than Bergeron, Toews, Barkov, Krejci or Monahan if you look at the chart clearly.

These corsi charts are nice and all but they don't tell the whole story.

Because they tell the story they're intended to tell. In this case the chart I made was to show who is relied upon more heavily.

Leave it to someone on CP to always arbitrarily dismiss anything the moment they read the word "corsi" even though it was really the least relevant part of the chart.

Originally Posted by Hackey

I never used his stats as an 18/19 year old I used his stats from this year. I agree with you he's a great prospect and probably gonna be a hell of a player in the near future. Just because he has 23 points in 27 games though doesn't mean he's a 70 point player. He's a 70 point player when he gets 70 points. That doesn't mean I don't think he will turn into that but the jump from 23 to 70 is quite a bit.

What you said is that at his current pace he's a 50 point player.

He has 23 in 27 games. If he plays every game and maintains his current pace he finishes the season with 61 points in 72 games.

So I just don't follow where you got "he's a 50 point player" unless you're using his stats as an 18/19 year old..

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Looks to me from your chart like Mikael Backlund is also better than Toews. These corsi charts are nice and all but they don't tell the whole story.

Better relative corsi, but fewer minutes and worse possession numbers, both of which are important to look at if you are judging a players total contribution.

Advanced stats don't tell the whole story, but they can add allot to the picture.

Gio and Brodies numbers would be just about unbelievably good if they could drive possession a little bit more.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by #-3

Gio and Brodies numbers would be just about unbelievably good if they could drive possession a little bit more.

Brodie and Gio's numbers would be just about unbelievably good if we replaced Kris Russell with a better #4 to soak up some of those tough minutes. Brian Campbell and Dougie Hamilton would be a sweet middle pair until Kulak/Hickey/Culkin are ready.

[vilzeh]

These guys who undervalue Barkov just haven't seen him play, as simple as that.

[Monahan For Mayor]

I don't think anyone is under valuing him, saying he's worth 7 mill is over value until he proves he can put up points and stay or of the hospital.

[Samonadreau]

Schlemko > Wideman, Russell
Byron > Bollig, Raymond.

IMO anyways. Guys with cheap price tags we short sightedly gave up on. I wont argue with anyone who disagrees.

Not a trade rumor, just didnt know where else to put this.

Thats all.

[hockey.modern]

I believe the Flames offered Schlemko a contract this summer but felt like he didn't have permanent role here

[saillias]

Originally Posted by #-3

Gio and Brodies numbers would be just about unbelievably good if they could drive possession a little bit more.

Their possession numbers would be much better if we didn't have a bananas breakout system. The game against the Ducks it was like puck may only be passed to a forward over 2 lines away. It connected maybe twice all night