The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[Jason14h]

My problem is that they are in win now mode. In the current year, there's no spot available for Upton. The Jays have somethings that works. Not sure why they want to mess with that when the move doesn't address any current holes that are holding the team back. To me this has the potential to wreck chemistry. Why fix what isn't broke?

This isn't true

Holes:
Team Speed/Bench Speed
OF Defense
The Black hole offensively at 1B
ANY bench depth

This helps fill all those needs. Sure our lineup yesterday is good without Upton, but injuries occur

Now, they still need at least one power left hander and probably 2 for the bullpen.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I do like the player a the acquisition cost, especially next year when Saunders and Bautista are gone.

My problem is that they are in win now mode. In the current year, there's no spot available for Upton. The Jays have somethings that works. Not sure why they want to mess with that when the move doesn't address any current holes that are holding the team back. To me this has the potential to wreck chemistry. Why fix what isn't broke?

Looks to me like the Jays are trying to cheaply fix next year's issue ahead of free agency. Most year's I'd be fine with it, but not when we are in the middle of a Pennant race.

I think the difference here is you prefer Carrera, and I prefer Upton.

Carrera really tanked when he had to play full time when Bautista went down, even though he was great before that. Upton can sustain a higher calibre of play more often, and if he can spell Bautista in the field (which I think anyone would be happy with), then JB can DH, Edwin can play 1B, which means less Smoak. I feel like the trickle down effect is greater with Upton than with Carrera.

His 20 stolen bases are a bonus too. I feel like as a 4th OF, Upton has plus tools - more so than Carrera.

[mrkajz44]

Given I know zero about the prospect we sent the other way, I'm only lukewarm on this deal.

Yes, Upton is likely an upgrade on Carerra, but I'm not sure its a huge one. It's almost like this move was made for the sake of making one. Depth down the stretch and hopefully into the postseason is valuable. And the fact that we are sending another pitcher in our system away is likely not great on the long run. I guess I see the good and the bad of this and don't really know how to feel

[transplant99]

Holy smokes...just heard that the Jays are only on the hook for 5 million TOTAL of the rest of Uptons contract.

Steal of a deal.

[Parallex]

This is a good trade. Upton won't get on base a lot (he should hit in the bottom third of the order) but he's got very decent power, speed, and he plays solid D. His glove will replace Jose's (Upgrade) and his Bat/Baserunning will replace Smoak (Upgrade) if they choose to have Jose DH more. It adds a lot of flexibility to the line-up. I like it.

[Lil Pedro]

I like this deal for the Jays. You never know with Bautista's toe either. This gives them flexibility and protection in RF. He's also great against lefties

[JTech780]

This is a fantastic trade for Toronto. Upton is a big upgrade over Carrera. The Padres are eating $17m of Upton's remaining $22m. The Jays gave up a pitcher who is still a long shot to make it to the Majors for improved defense and speed on the base paths. Upton also hits very well against lefties, a weakness for Toronto.

Upton is also signed for another year giving them some I durance going into next season.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Holy smokes...just heard that the Jays are only on the hook for 5 million TOTAL of the rest of Uptons contract.

Steal of a deal.

Yep, just came here to post that.

We got a 1.9 War player (so far) for 5 million over the remainder of the contract and a mediocre A prospect? Honestly they couldn't afford not to make this deal.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Yep, just came here to post that.

We got a 1.9 War player (so far) for 5 million over the remainder of the contract and a mediocre A prospect? Honestly they couldn't afford not to make this deal.

To think that Baltimore and Cleveland were also pushing for the player, and the Jays still got this good of a deal. How much less were those two teams offering?

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by calculoso

To think that Baltimore and Cleveland were also pushing for the player, and the Jays still got this good of a deal. How much less were those two teams offering?

Apparently the Baltimore trade broke down over finances, which, I don't really get. But I'll take it.

[Jiggy_12]

As usual, Stoeten sums it up nicely. Long read but worth it.

http://bluejaysnation.com/2016/7/25/...elvin-upton-jr

[transplant99]

Hansel Rodriguez was rated the 20th best JAYS prospect by one of the websites that track these kind of things apparently....and if that is ANYWHERE near the truth, this was a deal that TO had to make with both Saunders and JB moving on next year.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I like the deal. He provides added defence in the outfield, his bat has a bit of pop (which will be beneficial in the AL East), and is acquired at a low cost. His strike out rate concerns me a bit though.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I think the difference here is you prefer Carrera, and I prefer Upton.

Carrera really tanked when he had to play full time when Bautista went down, even though he was great before that. Upton can sustain a higher calibre of play more often, and if he can spell Bautista in the field (which I think anyone would be happy with), then JB can DH, Edwin can play 1B, which means less Smoak. I feel like the trickle down effect is greater with Upton than with Carrera.

His 20 stolen bases are a bonus too. I feel like as a 4th OF, Upton has plus tools - more so than Carrera.

It's not that I don't think Upton is a better player than Carrera, it's that I don't see Upton being happy being a bench player, I don't see a player with the ego of Bautista happily acknowledging he is now a liability in the outfield, and Edwin has said on a number of occasions that he feels more comfortable as DH and hits better when he is not in the field.

There's just too many egos to be bruised here, when we are pretty close to being a championship team.

I really like the move for next year though, but like I said, given our current standings, they should worry about next year, next year.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Here's Gord Ash's (former Jays GM) thoughts on the deal.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/smart-de...pton-jr~918684

[flames_fan_down_under]

I must say it seems to be a real buyers market for hitters if that's the cost of acquiring an almost 2 WAR player. I think the Jays acquire a couple more arms and maybe one more bat.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It's not that I don't think Upton is a better player than Carrera, it's that I don't see Upton being happy being a bench player, I don't see a player with the ego of Bautista happily acknowledging he is now a liability in the outfield, and Edwin has said on a number of occasions that he feels more comfortable as DH and hits better when he is not in the field.

There's just too many egos to be bruised here, when we are pretty close to being a championship team.

I really like the move for next year though, but like I said, given our current standings, they should worry about next year, next year.

If the egos are so fragile that adding a piece to help win - creates issues - then they aren't going to win anyways.

If anything I imagine a guy like Jose will be happy as he must see the clear holes in the roster still.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Ya Bautista was chapped two years ago when the Jays did nothing at the trade deadline. If anything this is telling the team that management is still looking for ways to improve the roster.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Seems to me that the FA pitcher market is so weak for next year, that the price of pitching is artificially sky rocketing for the few decent rentals that are available. I really don't think the Jays have the horses in the farm system to acquire any. The Jays could be coming to that conclusion and have now determined for this year, it's just easier to score 10 runs a game.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If the egos are so fragile that adding a piece to help win - creates issues - then they aren't going to win anyways.

If anything I imagine a guy like Jose will be happy as he must see the clear holes in the roster still.

I agree with this 100%.

If this brusies egos, IMO the problem is with that player, not the trade. This shoudn't be viewed as anyting but an upgrade. also, Bautista should remember it was him that cried the loudest when the Jays didn' tmake any moves 2 years ago.