2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Yoho

It’s even funnier when people don’t read. Bedard was used as an example of the top end talent in the next two years. A ten year old knows only one team gets him.

So when the flames blow it up but don’t land Bedard whats the plan? Sure there’s some good talent other than Bedard/Wright but I don’t think a massive rebuild is an easy task with how our current team is set up. A lot of our higher end players are now in deals that are expiring and have clauses that make it harder to move them. If we do blow it up I think the returns on players like Monahan, Tkachuk, Johnny etc. Would be supremely underwhelming and wouldn’t necessarily position us any better to land a Bedard/Wright generational talent like your post suggests would be a target.

Is blowing it up for one of those lottery picks something to consider? Well I don’t think it’s something not to consider but it’s a mega gamble either way and it’s maddening that we are even considering it if we are because the team seemingly went out and finally got a proper head coach and goalie just as their D regressed and their top forwards are on expiring contracts.

Treliving is maddening more and more as I begin to look back at his track record and the timing of some of his moves/non-moves. Sutter should have stepped in when Peters did but alas we missed on that window and now we are in a position to either pry the window back open (Eichel) or commit to renovating again when we didn’t even get a chance to truly enjoy the roster from the previous rebuild.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Im starting to think that a Flames roster with Eichel in it is worse than one without him.

I kind of agree with this, can’t sell the ranch for Eichel. If we are being honest, is Eichel a top 10 player in this league? Top 20?

[Young Guns]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

I kind of agree with this, can’t sell the ranch for Eichel. If we are being honest, is Eichel a top 10 player in this league? Top 20?

When he isn’t hurt, definitely a top 10 player. Probably closer to top 5.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Young Guns

When he isn’t hurt, definitely a top 10 player. Probably closer to top 5.

I don’t know if I agree with that… but we can agree to disagree

[Hackey]

Eichel isn't top 5 for sure. I don't think even top 10. Top 20 probably.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Eichel isn't top 5 for sure. I don't think even top 10. Top 20 probably.

So does a top 20 player cost the cost we are talking about here? Especially one with injury questions.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

So when the flames blow it up but don’t land Bedard whats the plan? Sure there’s some good talent other than Bedard/Wright but I don’t think a massive rebuild is an easy task with how our current team is set up. A lot of our higher end players are now in deals that are expiring and have clauses that make it harder to move them. If we do blow it up I think the returns on players like Monahan, Tkachuk, Johnny etc. Would be supremely underwhelming and wouldn’t necessarily position us any better to land a Bedard/Wright generational talent like your post suggests would be a target.

Is blowing it up for one of those lottery picks something to consider? Well I don’t think it’s something not to consider but it’s a mega gamble either way and it’s maddening that we are even considering it if we are because the team seemingly went out and finally got a proper head coach and goalie just as their D regressed and their top forwards are on expiring contracts.

Treliving is maddening more and more as I begin to look back at his track record and the timing of some of his moves/non-moves. Sutter should have stepped in when Peters did but alas we missed on that window and now we are in a position to either pry the window back open (Eichel) or commit to renovating again when we didn’t even get a chance to truly enjoy the roster from the previous rebuild.

Couple things:

How do you know Sutter wanted to come back after Peters was removed from the bench? Suggesting he was waiting and ready to step behind the bench once the Flames picked up the phone is bit of a reach.

I agree that entering a rebuild with the intent of winning the lottery is a dubious proposition. Look at the Red Wings. They’ve been at the bottom of the league for, what, 5 years now and they haven’t had the good fortune of picking in the top 3 once. Should go without saying, but tanking does not equal Bedford and/or Wright.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Not sure why we are talking about top 5 or top 10. The bottom line is those guys don't come on the markets unless as free agents (rare) or when there is a situation like this.
The Flames need elite talent to compete head to head with teams that have top players. And Eichel is relatively young.
If the team is intent on winning now this is a path to take.
Pining for a rebuild is fun but not practical if the organization isn't going to do it.

[Ashasx]

The problem is a rebuild is the rational solution to this mess but the Flames organization is adamantly against it. They shouldn't be. This team will be able to sell hope if there is a Wright or Bedard at the end of the rainbow. Hell, it worked with Monahan and Bennett.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The chances of landing either one of those is very small. You have to maximize your odds by being one of the worst teams in the league which isn’t easy. And then you still need the ball to fall your way. Overall the chances of both happening are sub 10 percent
Any plan that largely hinges on luck is a poor plan

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Couple things:

How do you know Sutter wanted to come back after Peters was removed from the bench? Suggesting he was waiting and ready to step behind the bench once the Flames picked up the phone is bit of a reach.

I agree that entering a rebuild with the intent of winning the lottery is a dubious proposition. Look at the Red Wings. They’ve been at the bottom of the league for, what, 5 years now and they haven’t had the good fortune of picking in the top 3 once. Should go without saying, but tanking does not equal Bedford and/or Wright.

Wasn’t meaning that he was available but I can see where how I worded it that way and didn’t establish what I meant that it could be construed that way. What I was meaning is we brought in a guy of Sutter’s pedigree too late, we should have brought in a coach like him with the roster where it was when we brought in Peters and really when we brought in Gulutzan. I thought firing Hartley was a tad knee jerk from Treliving and when he went on to replace him with ‘smartest guy in the room’ type picks before finally settling on Sutter it just screams if missed opportunities. If all we have to show from this core group which is already dismantled on the back end (Brodie,Gio exits in succession with no returned assets) and about to dismantle up front (Gaudreau/Tkachuk) is a couple of brutal first round exits and one series win against a weak nucks team at the time then to me it just speaks to how Treliving has talked a good game but hasn’t walked it and I’m hoping he’s walked out if this season is yet another stumble.

At any rate the ‘if you can squeak in anything can happen’ mentality he was spouting after his off-season work leaves a lot to be desired as a fan and is a tad ridiculous with the likes of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane and Lindholm upfront.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The chances of landing either one of those is very small. You have to maximize your odds by being one of the worst teams in the league which isn’t easy. And then you still need the ball to fall your way. Overall the chances of both happening are sub 10 percent
Any plan that largely hinges on luck is a poor plan

The chances are small to land the 1st overall pick, yes, but as I said, the Flames were able to sell hope with the 6th and 4th overall picks.

Yes, they didn't turn out how we hoped, but that's still a far better solution to trying to continue to crack success with this core.

The downside of forgone ticket sales is over-exaggerated. If anything, I think fans would react far more positively and be more understanding to a full rebuild than continual 17-22nd place finishes every year with nothing coming up the pipeline.

This isn't about luck. Of course you need it to win, but look at the teams with elite talent in this league and look how they acquired it.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by mile

Happy to hear that Vegas isn't willing to include Krebs.

So if Buffalo can't have any of Krebs, Zegras, McTavish, Drysdale...
Have to think a prospect like Zary would be in that next best tier.

As far as trading close to $10M in cap space goes, some contracts we could move:
Monahan + Valimaki + Gudbranson = $9.875M
Monahan + Zadorov = $10.125M

Monahan + Valimaki + Dube = $10.225M, but would hate moving two forwards in our top 9. Especially since Dube would likely take Backlund's spot as the 3C if Monahan left.
Monahan + Andersson = $10.925M, but no way the Flames move one of their top 3 D.

Don't see Lucic going anywhere. Probably need a 3rd team to take at least one of the contracts above to make it work.

This would be what I'd try to make a package around.

(Seriously I mean, without trying to push the Buffalo Rasmussens meme)

Originally Posted by stanley

Im starting to think that a Flames roster with Eichel in it is worse than one without him.

I personally don't see the net loss you're worried about.

Kylington can take Valimaki's spot on the 3rd LD (I'm higher on him anyway and it sounds like a lot of CP is)
Lindholm and Backlund take over 2C and 3C respectively if Monahan & Dube are moved. Sure they can play 1C and 2C if you really want to shoehorn them there but you need an elite #1 in that 1st line C spot ideally to play with your top offensive wingers.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The chances are small to land the 1st overall pick, yes, but as I said, the Flames were able to sell hope with the 6th and 4th overall picks.

Yes, they didn't turn out how we hoped, but that's still a far better solution to trying to continue to crack success with this core.

The downside of forgone ticket sales is over-exaggerated. If anything, I think fans would react far more positively and be more understanding to a full rebuild than continual 17-22nd place finishes every year with nothing coming up the pipeline.

Different situations when you turn over a team lead by a 35 and 36 year old vs a team that has a core in their mid-late 20’s.

I can only speak for myself as a season ticket holder for the last 5 years. A blow up rebuild I am not renewing my tickets. If they get Eichel that is a different story and I am sticking around.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Different situations when you turn over a team lead by a 35 and 36 year old vs a team that has a core in their mid-late 20’s.

I can only speak for myself as a season ticket holder for the last 5 years. A blow up rebuild I am not renewing my tickets. If they get Eichel that is a different story and I am sticking around.

This is exactly the time to rebuild. Get what you can for Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Monahan before they are in their mid 30s like Iginla and Kiprusoff.

I think we can all pretty much agree that this core won't get it done. So why waste time with it? Why not recoup assets to help in a rebuild before it's too late?

It's exactly what the Flames did wrong last time. How could we possibly fall for it again?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Different situations when you turn over a team lead by a 35 and 36 year old vs a team that has a core in their mid-late 20’s.

I can only speak for myself as a season ticket holder for the last 5 years. A blow up rebuild I am not renewing my tickets. If they get Eichel that is a different story and I am sticking around.

So you are only keeping your tickets until a rebuild? You do know that it will happen one day. The only question is are they going to make the decision or is the decision going to be thrust upon them .

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

So you are only keeping your tickets until a rebuild? You do know that it will happen one day. The only question is are they going to make the decision or is the decision going to be thrust upon them .

Pretty much where I am at in my life right now I have no interest in spending thousands of dollars and hours of my time watching a team that is trying to be bad for a few years to get young talent. I will still support and watch the games on TV and go to 3-5 a year but spending minimum $4k a year on the team and going to 20 games is over.

If they get Eichel I think they will be a contender and will stick around.

I was never planning on being a season ticket holder for life. I am at an age and situation where it makes sense but not for much longer and certainly not if they are rebuilding.

[1qqaaz]

The Flames could still really use a 3rd OA, 4th OA, or 5th OA pick. Maybe a few.

A lottery pick is nice, but it's not like rebuilding is an all or nothing gamble.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The Flames could still really use a 3rd OA, 4th OA, or 5th OA pick. Maybe a few.

A lottery pick is nice, but it's not like rebuilding is an all or nothing gamble.

Especially when players like Michkov are going to be available after the first pick.

[Vinny01]

I see a legitimate and potential path to Eichel that makes sense to me for a team that is all in with Sutter and Markstrom.

I liked how the team looked 5 on 5 and just saw a team with high end talent capitalize on their chances. Giving up Monahan+Gudbransen/Zadorov (cap hits) + futures to get Eichel and then keeping Gaudreau long term is a path to being a team that can contend in my opinion.

If Eichel doesn’t work then I think the rebuild path is inevitable this summer or the one after