Conservatives To Slash Federal Funding of Political Parties [Update-CPC backs down]

[Flame On]

I just don't understand all the babyish whining about the electorate voting for the Cons and the other parties wanting to take power. If it's in the constittion people, then get over it.
Maybe if Harper was popular enough to gain enough votes so that the other parties combined seats wouldn't put his party in peril than it would be another story. But he absolutely failed at that. He then additionally fails with his budget update to convince the opposition that represents a lot of people who did vote for them, that his ecconimic update is anything short of politicing instead of doing whats best for the country.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by chowdachad

How so, the coalition wasn't voted into power by the people of Canada so why is it there right to bully their way in?

As Ronald keeps stating (correctly), because its within the rules of our constitution and parliamentary process.

[metallicat]

Does a person who led his party to the lowest popular vote they've had since Confederation (thanks to whoever brought this up earlier) deserve to run this country more than a party who hasn't even been given a chance to govern this session? I think not.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Does a person who led his party to the lowest popular vote they've had since Confederation (thanks to whoever brought this up earlier) deserve to run this country more than a party who hasn't even been given a chance to govern this session? I think not.

The "lowest vote since confederation" argument is a red herring though. Harper knew what he was doing (c'mon I've had to endure hearing about how brilliant this guy is for a few years now!), and its his own fault.

They were given a chance to govern, threw it away willingly for another election and didn't get a majority there either. Now rather than try to govern as though he has a minority he tries his luck early.

I don't know whether Steve Who has the same ring to it, but Joe Clark must be proud!

[metallicat]

Did they not back off on the plan though? That is essentially what they are supposed to do when in a minority government. I really don't see a reason why this should be allowed to happen so soon after parliament resumed sitting.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Did they not back off on the plan though? That is essentially what they are supposed to do when in a minority government. I really don't see a reason why this should be allowed to happen so soon after parliament resumed sitting.

Part of the issue, I think is that they can't back off at this point. If the pork barrel club stands down now, they admit that it is only their own wallets they care about.

[Resolute 14]

Bit of advice for the Liberals:

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

As Ronald keeps stating (correctly), because its within the rules of our constitution and parliamentary process.

Ok fine.

then hypothetically, if Harper can convince 10 oppositioon MP's to cross the floor and sit as conservatives, everything is just fine right? A full fledged majority right now.

I mean it's in the constitution and it's a parliamentary process. So it has to be OK.

just because something like this CAN happen, certainly does not mean it should. they have slapped the Canadian electorate in the face should this proceed and decided that assuming power via the back door is much more important than the wishes of the majority of Canadians. And yes they got the most seats by a mile. the most votes and the mandate to govern.

Again...if you are suggesting that most canadians voted against the conservatives, then it is equally true that even more Canadians voted against the Liberals...and the Bloc...and the NDP.

Also I woud suggest that any liberal would be Ok with the Conservatives making a deal with the NDP or the Bloc should they so choose to give them a majority and pass legislation that way...right?

[Dan02]

seeing as the liberals are broke isn't it in their best interest to try to avoid the risk of a election?

[metallicat]

Obviously they are banking on Jean's likely Liberal leanings to allow them to form government. They don't even have a real leader for crying out loud. This is just so insane I can hardly believe it's happening.

[C_Rush]

My two cents:

I do not like Stephen Harper or the Conservatives. I like Stephane Dion and the Liberals less.

The election is only 6 weeks past, another election is stupid. The Conservatives (even though a minority) won more seats than last time, while Liberals and NDP both lost seats, so it seems voters were more comfortable with them in charge than the oppositions. All this posturing just seems to me sour grapes by eastern parties who are both in shambles, both politically and finacially. The voters had their say and picked the Conservatives - let it be and get on with the process of governing, not trying to run end-plays around the voters and seize control of parliament by parties not given a mandate to govern.

End rant.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ok fine.

then hypothetically, if Harper can convince 10 oppositioon MP's to cross the floor and sit as conservatives, everything is just fine right? A full fledged majority right now.

I mean it's in the constitution and it's a parliamentary process. So it has to be OK.

just because something like this CAN happen, certainly does not mean it should. they have slapped the Canadian electorate in the face should this proceed and decided that assuming power via the back door is much more important than the wishes of the majority of Canadians. And yes they got the most seats by a mile. the most votes and the mandate to govern.

Again...if you are suggesting that most canadians voted against the conservatives, then it is equally true that even more Canadians voted against the Liberals...and the Bloc...and the NDP.

Also I woud suggest that any liberal would be Ok with the Conservatives making a deal with the NDP or the Bloc should they so choose to give them a majority and pass legislation that way...right?

Hey man, I feel ya. I'm as tory blue as they come. This whole thing pisses me off. The thought of Jack Layton anywhere near the federal wallet or industry minister position scares the crap out of me.

I agree that it's not right, I was just recognizing the fact that they can.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

The election is only 6 weeks past, another election is stupid. The Conservatives (even though a minority) won more seats than last time, while Liberals and NDP both lost seats, so it seems voters were more comfortable with them in charge than the oppositions. All this posturing just seems to me sour grapes by eastern parties who are both in shambles, both politically and finacially. The voters had their say and picked the Conservatives - let it be and get on with the process of governing, not trying to run end-plays around the voters and seize control of parliament by parties not given a mandate to govern.

End rant.

The NDP gained 8 seats. It is usually good to understand what you are talking about before posting.

The voters gave the Conservatives a minority and many even said that a minority would be a good thing because it keeps things in the center, moderate and that the parties would have to work together to get things passed. However, the Conservatives chose not to work with the other parties, actually chose to infuriate the other parties and make everyone their enemy. Nicely done. There is no sense of partnership, willingness to work through issues, reach across the aisle as it were.... they were out to make as many enemies as possible.

Given that the Conservatives have utterly failed in trying to govern reasonably, it is the duty of the other parties to try to work together to see if they can do better. And I am sure they can given that a barrel full of monkeys could do better.

Which Eastern parties are in shambles? The Liberals are picking a new leader which is bound to increase their fortunes. They are in a financial bind right now, which the weasely Conservatives tried to take advantage of and bankrupt them. But what is the other party in trouble? The NDP are on the rise and increasing in popularity and are on solid financial ground. Were you referring to the Bloc? They seem to have done quite well this last election and Duceppe is doing quite well as leader.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by fotze

Screw this thread, I propose we all meet at some bike racks preferably with machetes and settle this like men.

Will Jack Layton be there?

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ok fine.

then hypothetically, if Harper can convince 10 oppositioon MP's to cross the floor and sit as conservatives, everything is just fine right? A full fledged majority right now.

I mean it's in the constitution and it's a parliamentary process. So it has to be OK.

It is OK. I would not have a problem with this. This is the way our system works.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Also I woud suggest that any liberal would be Ok with the Conservatives making a deal with the NDP or the Bloc should they so choose to give them a majority and pass legislation that way...right?

Yes of course, this would mean that they would have negotiated with either opposition group to achieve a majority vote (meaning concessions in the mini-budget, likely some sort of stimulus package, or a preliminary plan for stimulus in the future if necessary). Again perfectly fine.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Given that the Conservatives have utterly failed in trying to govern reasonably, it is the duty of the other parties to try to work together to see if they can do better. And I am sure they can given that a barrel full of monkeys could do better.

Boy are you in for a surprise then...

Though knowing you, you'd spin the destruction of our economy by the NDP as a great move.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

destruction of our economy by the NDP

Again with the scare tactics. You bitch and complain that people won't vote Conservative because people throw out "scare tactics" like that the Conservatives will "destroy health care" or "ruin social programs". But you're just find throwing out your own.

But I certainly will be happy hearing "Deputy Prime Minister Jack Layton".

How can you NOT do better at working together to pass bills when the example set by the Conservatives is to, directly after an election, attempt to piss off all other parties? You cannot possibly do worse than that.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But I certainly will be happy hearing "Deputy Prime Minister Jack Layton".

How can you NOT do better at working together to pass bills when the example set by the Conservatives is to, directly after an election, attempt to piss off all other parties? You cannot possibly do worse than that.

Are you crazy?!?

The NDP always promise social program after social program, accompanied by tax cut after tax cut. Just where do you think all that money is going to come from? I've never seen the NDP substantiate where they will get all this money from in any of their campaigns.

Either they lying and will never implement what they say they will, or they will bankrupt the country giving away free money.

That is what Resolute meant by the 'destuction of our economy'.

[Calgaryborn]

I'm not sure if Harper could have or should have started throwing out bail out money in this mini-budget. Whenever the Americans figure out what they are going to do with the auto industry Canada will have to consider their options. To make a move before that would be foolish. Canada could look at investment in infrastructure. The benefit of that is at least our children would see some benefit from the expenditure being as they will be paying the bill. But even there it would make sense to wait and see where this recession will bottom before stimulating the economy with capital spending.

I can't see a coalition government being anything but, a disaster waiting to happen. It would be short lived and really hurt the credibility of the parties involved. If either this proposed coalition or another election is forced by these opposition parties the conservatives will get their majority government when the dust settles. If the coalition actually survives a year before the Block makes too many demands Harper may get his first majority government just about the time the world's economy starts bouncing back.

The Conservatives did run their election campaign on being physically conservative and I don't think the voting public are going to be impressed with the coalition's excuse for grabbing power.

[Flames in 07]

If these dbags get this coalition going, and it's not just a scare tactic, I wonder if part of the response is Alberta circles the wagons and looks to break free? Not sure what I think about that, but I but this doesn't just go through quietly.