Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[stang]

Originally Posted by millhouse11

I heard about this one on the radio this morning.

"The girlfriend of a man viciously stabbed 28 times by his co-worker as he slept in his Kananaskis hotel is shocked the killer is free from a mental facility less than three years later."

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=992780

MAYBE when a DR declares guy who has commited a violent crime like this to be "sane" and allowed him go back into society, then the DR can be held criminally responsible IF the guy reoffends.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by stang

I dont wnt him out because he is cured....after he is "cured" he should go to jail. What if he relapses? Obviously something deep inside of him wants to do this... and I think his crime was violent enough to say "we arent taking any chances, on him doing it again.

I dont want my daughter in 15 years to find herself sitting next to this guy on a bus.

He was not found criminaly responsible thus you can't send him to jail.

He is a diagnosed schizophrenic. His mental illness was the cause and not something deep inside of him.

There are countless shizophrenics in the world today who take thier meds daily and lead quite normal lives. Many don't come forward due to the discrimination and and stigma attached to mental illness.

A deceased friend of mine was a shizophrenic and i had no fears about being around him. People live in fear due to thie own ignorance.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by stang

MAYBE when a DR declares guy who has commited a violent crime like this to be "sane" and allowed him go back into society, then the DR can be held criminally responsible IF the guy reoffends.

I'm pretty sure that one of the conditions of his release is that he continue to take whatever medication he was given and to continue any treatments. That and he will probably have to report to a psychiatrist on a regular basis.

[ken0042]

I guess in my mind even though the person might have a health issue that led to him going off the one time; the fact of the matter is that he still went off. And in a very big way- I'm not talking about the manor of the crime but the fact that he killed somebody.

To me that is the only thing that matters. Should we try to get him help? Of course. But he has had his chance to live in society and has shown he is not capable. It's unfortunate, but it was a lot more unfortunate for the guy who decided to travel around one summer with the Ex, Stampede, and Klondike Days.

As for your relative Dion, I'm not saying all people with mental disorders should be locked up, but once you show you cannot function in society to this extent, you lose your rights to try again.

Firefly's example of the job interview is exactly what I would want to see. A completely innocent young man lost his life at those hands, those hands must now deal with it.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Dion

A deceased friend of mine was a shizophrenic and i had no fears about being around him. People live in fear due to thie own ignorance.

Did your deceased friend kill someone? Would you have the same feeling around him if he had?

Killers with mental illnesses needed to be treated, and then sent to jail. Where is the justice otherwise? Frankly I couldn't give a crap about their ability to reintegrate into society after murdering somebody.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As for your relative Dion, I'm not saying all people with mental disorders should be locked up, but once you show you cannot function in society to this extent, you lose your rights to try again.

I disagree. It's unfortunate that it takes an incident where someone is killed before said person is given a proper diagnosis. That does not mean they can't become a functioning member of society again.

My deceased friend returned home from a hockey scholarship at San Diego State. His behaviour started to change that included some violent outbursts. His family sent him to many doctors before they discovered he had shizophrenia. The sad part is the diagnosis came after he nearly killed his mother.

In hindsight the family said they might have clued into to what was going on if they weren't so ignorant about mental illness. If they knew what they learned later they would have sent him to a psychiatrist first.

We don't have enough resources and psychiatrists to help people who are suffering. From what i've read there's a years wait to see a shrink. If you have loads of money to spare the phone book if filled with countless psychologists that are willing to help. Problem is it's expensive and health care doesn't cover it. Then there's the stigma of a person being weak plus the discrimination that goes along with it. IMO it's no wonder we have cases like this showing up in the news.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Did your deceased friend kill someone? Would you have the same feeling around him if he had?

Killers with mental illnesses needed to be treated, and then sent to jail. Where is the justice otherwise? Frankly I couldn't give a crap about their ability to reintegrate into society after murdering somebody.

He tried to kill his mother by choking her. Like i said erarlier i had no problems being around him and he never once threatened me in any way. Once he was diagnosed and treated with meds he was fine and did his best to live a normal life.

Do you want justice or is it an eye for an eye type of thing?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do you want justice or is it an eye for an eye type of thing?

Good question. I would say it's a little of both.

However what about justice for the victim or in this case the victim of the family? What about them being able to sleep at night? Assuming Li gets cured at some point, is it "just" for him to be allowed to live his life even though he took another person's life?

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Dion

Do you want justice or is it an eye for an eye type of thing?

I just try to imagine for myself how I would feel if I was part of the victim's family. The link to the article about that person who is now free (3 years later) after stabbing someone 28 times; that doesn't sicken you?

In your friend's case, considering that he didn't actually kill anyone, I would definitely support his rehabilitation and re-entry into society.

IMO, once you kill someone, the line is crossed.

[millhouse11]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I just try to imagine for myself how I would feel if I was part of the victim's family.

we also can't forget the people who were also on the bus and had to witness that. they interviewed the guy who was sitting across from them, and he had to carry his girlfriend off of the bus because she froze from fear. She's now depressed, and his having trouble functioning, and he went from an 'A' student to just getting by. He would like some compensation so they can see a phycologist, but he won't get it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Good question. I would say it's a little of both.

However what about justice for the victim or in this case the victim of the family? What about them being able to sleep at night? Assuming Li gets cured at some point, is it "just" for him to be allowed to live his life even though he took another person's life?

The family is clearly looking for an eye for an eye as opposed to justice. From what i've read and seen on TV the family is clearly ignorant when it comes to shizophrenia. The man was found not criminaly responsible yet they want him to spend time in prison. I guess rehabilitation is something they don't want.

Even more interesting is that the prosecutor and the defence both agreed this was clearly a case where Li was not criminaly responsible.

Is it just for him? If the peole treating him say he's well enough to be integrated back into society, i'd say justice has been done. That being said i doubt Li is ever released.

As for the family not being able to sleep, i feel for them. Outside of fighting to get laws changed they have to find a way to deal with the anger.

Maybe if we as a society didn't put a stigma behind mental illness along with the discrimination more people might come forward for help.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I just try to imagine for myself how I would feel if I was part of the victim's family. The link to the article about that person who is now free (3 years later) after stabbing someone 28 times; that doesn't sicken you?

It doesn't sicken me because i have some understanding of mental illness and why someone might kill another. I actually feel sorry for the person who did the killings as well as the victims family. It's a very sad situation.

In your friend's case, considering that he didn't actually kill anyone, I would definitely support his rehabilitation and re-entry into society.

IMO, once you kill someone, the line is crossed.

He choked her to a point where she was unconcious. He probably thought she was dead. The intent to kill was there, but by sheer luck she survived.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I just try to imagine for myself how I would feel if I was part of the victim's family. The link to the article about that person who is now free (3 years later) after stabbing someone 28 times; that doesn't sicken you?

In your friend's case, considering that he didn't actually kill anyone, I would definitely support his rehabilitation and re-entry into society.

IMO, once you kill someone, the line is crossed.

So what about the case of Const. Darren Beatty who was shot and killed by his partner Const. Cyril Pratt in a training exercise?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/...oot020828.html

Const. Cyril Pratt was not charged with any crime and was permitted to return to work for the Calgary Police Service.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn...9/v04-n443.txt

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

So what about the case of Const. Darren Beatty who was shot and killed by his partner Const. Cyril Pratt in a training exercise?

That's a tough one. Could be argued that it was at least criminally negligent.

[redforever]

How the mental health system failed Vince Li

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...h.html?ref=rss

http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/lila-li090305.mov

It was not that various people and authorities never knew of Li's mental illness, it was the fact that for some reason or other, he never got the treatment he needed. He somehow fell through the cracks.


And unfortunately, here is another one who fell through the cracks.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/03/03/smith-report.html

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2009/03/04/smith-family.html

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2008/06/09/nb-smith-ombudsman.html

[Dion]

Mental health system failed Li

She also condemned a mental-health system she feels could have prevented her son's death.

Mr. Li was involuntarily admitted to an Ontario hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 after he was found wandering on a Toronto highway. Though a physician determined his agitated mental state would likely result in bodily harm against himself or others, Mr. Li fled the hospital without permission.

"All the systems failed all the way along," Ms. deDelley said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl....LI06/TPStory/

[Flames_Gimp]

ill or not put him down. Rehab for this guy is a waste of taxpayers money.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by troutman

If they did, they still would not execute the criminally insane.

true, although I wish they would.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

ill or not put him down. Rehab for this guy is a waste of taxpayers money.

I like the cut of your jib, Gimp........

[Kev]

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...period.