Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree with most of what Rhett said

Treliving failed to manage it and left a mess

He was silent on Kadri, though, and that is the guy that most obviously appeared to have quit on the team. Be interested to hear his thoughts on him

I'll never forget how he treated Pelletier on ice this year.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

When he mentioned problems in the room with players I just assumed he was alluding to Kadri and one or two others but definitely Kadri.

He has criticized Kadri in the past. Definitely doesn't give him a pass. He is really hard on Huberdeau though. Thinks he is mailing it in and doesn't want to be there really, but the money was too good to turn down. He admits that Darryl wasn't using him properly, but that the poor performances for the minutes he did play is on him. He said players can't use the coach as an excuse when it comes to just not playing well in general.

[JT45]

Was Kadri bad to Pelletier on the ice? What did he do - genuinly curious. Never noticed myself.

[jayswin]

But does Rhett understand defensive metrics at all? Huberdeau's issue was quite clearly not effort, it was attempting to completely change his game as per Sutter. Which in itself would have been great, but Sutter also played a crappy shot volume system that clearly neutered Huberdeau's offensive game.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JT45

Was Kadri bad to Pelletier on the ice? What did he do - genuinly curious. Never noticed myself.

He'd scream at him and a couple times straight up stripped him of the puck while Pelletier was moving up. Like went out of his way to do it.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The team has a different core than it had two season ago. Pro sports is extremely status-driven, and the guys getting the big bucks are the top dogs.

Two years ago the top dogs were:

Gaudreau
Monahan
Tkachuk
Backlund
Lindholm
Hanifin

Last season the top dogs were:

Huberdeau
Kadri
Weegar
Backlund
Mangiapane
Hanifin

Very different core. Different pecking order. Different group dynamic.

Did last season’s team really look like a bunch of guys playing and fighting for one another?

Warrener isn’t a hockey savant. But he’s probably a pretty good judge of team dynamics and chemistry. I believe him when he says the team looks like it has big locker room problems.

He knows some of the guys too, so he likely hears a lot more than we know. Lindholm, Huberdeau didn't click, Kadri at times didn't show up. Lindholm, Backlund show up but the guys getting paid have some influence on how things went down on the ice. Some guys supported the coach but the 2 new guys didn't mesh well. The changes were too much and Sutter wasn't himself either.

Time for the Flames to reset and accept chamge.

[Badgers Nose]

I’d have a week long orgasm if the Flames somehow dumped Huby and Kadri, not going to lie. I have zero confidence going to war with those two as the leaders.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dammage79

He'd scream at him and a couple times straight up stripped him of the puck while Pelletier was moving up. Like went out of his way to do it.

Lucic should’ve thrown Kadri’s track suit in the shower after that…

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'll never forget how he treated Pelletier on ice this year.

Kadri was what I expected of Evander Kane on the oilers

There's no place for blaming a rookie for your failure as the center of your line

[Vinny01]

Rhett’s rants this season have been absolutely epic. I think he has truly come into his own on this podcast being even more like himself. The whole trio is fantastic and we are lucky they cover the Flames.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Rhett’s rants this season have been absolutely epic. I think he has truly come into his own on this podcast being even more like himself. The whole trio is fantastic and we are lucky they cover the Flames.

They remind me of hanging out with my old friend group I grew out of sometimes. Shooting the #### every weekend, bitching about the team and watching lame videos.

But damn if it's hard not to keep going back to BB for all things Flames.

Easily the best discussions around the team.

I like that they butt heads too, instead of 960 where people have to placate the likes of Derek Wills

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But does Rhett understand defensive metrics at all? Huberdeau's issue was quite clearly not effort, it was attempting to completely change his game as per Sutter. Which in itself would have been great, but Sutter also played a crappy shot volume system that clearly neutered Huberdeau's offensive game.

Maybe Rhett does or doesn't understand defensive metrics, but he was a player for a long time and I have no doubt he can recognize when a player is giving 100%, and when they aren't. I didn't see the effort, except for at the tail end of the season, which does give me some hope for next season I suppose.

Huberdeau was last on the team for controlled zone entries amongst forwards. Even if it was just Sutter's system, it doesn't explain why he was last among his peers. I just didn't see intensity from him, except on rare occasions. If it was just the system holding him back, I would still expect to see more individual effort. Guys like Toffoli, Lindholm, and even Kadri for 2/3rds of the season didn't seem to have a problem at least on the GAF meter.

I recognize that Rhett's opinion is confirmation bias for how things looked to me as well and respect that others can have different conclusions, but I just didn't see it.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree with most of what Rhett said

Treliving failed to manage it and left a mess

He was silent on Kadri, though, and that is the guy that most obviously appeared to have quit on the team. Be interested to hear his thoughts on him

But once again who made the call? Maybe he wanted to fix this mess and start moving players but ownership said no and committed to chasing that last playoff spot since they were “close.” Could be why he decided to bail as the lack of control and ability to turn this around was out of his hands.

[soreshins]

Or he bailed because he knew he’d messed up big style and it was better to leave now than get fired later? Happens ALL the time in business.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by soreshins

Or he bailed because he knew he’d messed up big style and it was better to leave now than get fired later? Happens ALL the time in business.

I do believe it was a combination of bailing and knowing he had Toronto locked up if it was available. Treliving and Dubas both kind of hardballed their employers. In the end they also both won. They have gotten what they wanted. They have also both done absolutely #### all when it matters.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by soreshins

Or he bailed because he knew he’d messed up big style and it was better to leave now than get fired later? Happens ALL the time in business.

Yeah, no doubt he was talking to some key players to get their feel and didn't want another summer like last summer with players wanting out. People talk about the end of season interviews that he did with Maloney, but no doubt Treliving was talking to players outside of that structure all season long. There was even a news story near the end of the season where Treliving was down at the ice during practice talking to players like it was a big deal for a GM to be doing that. He got out when he needed to in order to not harm his image and keep the goodwill he had left from the summer before. He knew how things were going to playout and extending with the Flames would likely mean the end of the road for him.

I get it, Treliving knows how to play the crowd and is a nice guy, but he also knows business and when to get out.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, no doubt he was talking to some key players to get their feel and didn't want another summer like last summer with players wanting out. People talk about the end of season interviews that he did with Maloney, but no doubt Treliving was talking to players outside of that structure all season long. There was even a news story near the end of the season where Treliving was down at the ice during practice talking to players like it was a big deal for a GM to be doing that. He got out when he needed to in order to not harm his image and keep the goodwill he had left from the summer before. He knew how things were going to playout and extending with the Flames would likely mean the end of the road for him.

I get it, Treliving knows how to play the crowd and is a nice guy, but he also knows business and when to get out.

Yes I agree with all of that. Dubas did the same thing.

[fenix_sk]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

When he mentioned problems in the room with players I just assumed he was alluding to Kadri and one or two others but definitely Kadri.

Rhett has a bit of a relationship with Sutter, does he not? I think he might have a bit of inside knowledge about what was happening in the dressing room. He has really been pushing lately that Sutter knew what the problem was, and was trying to fix it. I can't help but think "problem" is Huberdeau when you look at what Sutter had to say about him publicly.

[BrownDrake]

That was a great segment.

I got the impression that Rhett was insinuating that there was a problem in the dressing room which Sutter was brought in to fix that predated the Huby trade, maybe there was issues before and Sutter was trying to fix them and then everything was compounded with the addition of 3 new bodies, no captain etc. etc.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

That was a great segment.

I got the impression that Rhett was insinuating that there was a problem in the dressing room which Sutter was brought in to fix that predated the Huby trade, maybe there was issues before and Sutter was trying to fix them and then everything was compounded with the addition of 3 new bodies, no captain etc. etc.

Yep
Things are starting to make more sense now (if all this is true)
Can’t really have an effective captain if the group is deeply broken or divided in the first place. By appointing one, you’d simply be declaring which faction you support, perpetuating the issue
And
Yes the end result is players wanting out for various reasons, but to look on the bright side, that group didn’t really accomplish much as a team professionally anyway
Part of the reason the “players are not having fun” excuse bothered me so much is that it seemed to be off target. It’s professional sports after all with a distinct goal. Perhaps now we will get to the actual reason this particular team hasn’t accomplished a lot and get rid of it all at once.