Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[Ashes]

Yep good listen today. Rhett especially was echoing a lot of the stuff that's bothered me with all the latest news about players not willing to re-sign.

Management listened to the players and fired the coach when it was clear the players weren't going to come back if things don't change. Coach is fired, and now the players are still tripping over each other heading for the door (presumably). Well, great.

Burn it down and start over at the draft this summer. We need young players all coming up at the same time, I liked Rhett's point about how that's what the room needs to reset itself and how those young guys will be hungry and excited to play for Calgary.

[CliffFletcher]

Yeah, I think a young core coming up together is a big part of culture. Look at the Devils and how much fun they seem to have. The Sabres and Senators aren’t there yet, but they’re improving because they have young cores who have fun playing together. They like coming to the rink.

But really, none of this matters unless Edwards change the strategic imperative of the franchise.

[automaton 3]

Rhett was fired up, wow. Scorched earth, trade them all.

He had a good point, they knew the room was broken last year and that was the time to try to fix it. Can't say I disagree.

[SuperMatt18]

Weird part about this "Room being broken" narrative is that it's all really new.

In 21-22 it was all about how it was such a close group of guys, and they all get along so well, and families are together away from the rink, etc.

Even last year that narrative was still out there at times, until maybe around Christmas when the "We need to play for each other" stuff started.

But now it's "the room was poison".

Honestly I don't think it has anything to do with that. Players see the writing on the wall, know this team isn't a cup contender, and aren't going to take a pay cut or discount to stay here or re-sign a year early.

[dammage79]

You sure about that?

The Muzzin puck flip incident really seemed like a room breaking. Gio and Johnny telling Tkachuk to cool it seems like a room breaking.

I think Sutters antics really pushed everyone over the ledge.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You sure about that?

The Muzzin puck flip incident really seemed like a room breaking. Gio and Johnny telling Tkachuk to cool it seems like a room breaking.

I think Sutters antics really pushed everyone over the ledge.

100%

There was not one mention of the room being broken in 21-22. There were some rumors of Gio and Tkachuk (and I know Gio doesn't like him for a fact) but Gio was gone and all seemed fine.

The narrative throughout 21-22 was they all loved playing together...until they didn't.

Gaudreau was the first domino and now it's the domino effect. It's unfortunate but I think people are reading too much into what is just a business decision for these guys.

Why would you re-sign a year early when the team doesn't look like it's going to be a contender and in the case of Hanifin / Backlund / Toffoli don't want to overpay with term or $$$.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I also agree with him pointing the finger last year at 'management' (didn't call out Treliving by name), and saying how it was his mess to clean up, but he didn't. Said he should have started moving guys out at the trade deadline.

[The Yen Man]

I honestly think the whole dressing room disfunction is overblown. Feels more like pending UFAs who don't want to commit yet without seeing what the longterm plan of the Flames are. Hanifin sounds like he just wants to go play in the States, Backlund wants to chase a cup, Toffoli wants a longer term deal, and Lindholm has a number he wants.

[browntrout]

With everything that has happened, why would Lindholm even want to join this circus, the guy is good as gone

[Pickle Juice]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Yep good listen today. Rhett especially was echoing a lot of the stuff that's bothered me with all the latest news about players not willing to re-sign.

Management listened to the players and fired the coach when it was clear the players weren't going to come back if things don't change. Coach is fired, and now the players are still tripping over each other heading for the door (presumably). Well, great.

Burn it down and start over at the draft this summer. We need young players all coming up at the same time, I liked Rhett's point about how that's what the room needs to reset itself and how those young guys will be hungry and excited to play for Calgary.

Not sure that the narrative the media and fans are painting is completely accurate? Each player seems to have a different reason behind their exodus and it’s almost like the perfect storm. Here is what we think we know!

Backlund wants captaincy. Flames have apparently offered it to him with low term and dollars. My opinion he resigns but at his age he might look to cash in and take a shot at a cup.

Tyler Toffoli wants term. Flames not willing to hand out another long term contract to anther aging player. Good Job management we are finally learning.

Elias Lindholm apparently wants to understand the direction the flames are going and collect a paycheck. Rule of thumb for me is 1 million dollars for every 10 points. Taking that into account he has been underpaid for the past 5 years with the flames and you can understand where one might look to cash in based on this premise. Put yourself in his shoes to all the people worried about paying him a bit over market value. IF you worked for a company for 5 years and you were one of the top employees for the last 5 years and new people were coming getting paid way more then you, I could see why one might look to make up a little from what they deserved all along. Yes a contract is a contract, but now he has all the right to look to get his value in return.

Noah Hanifin wants out period. End of story! Only person that fits the medias narrative.

I have faith. I’m not sure why but I really think that the flames will ice a competitive young hockey team with the return from these guys. Obliviously I am of the opinion that Lindholm should stay but I feel that’s unlikely due to the rest of the group having reasons of their own to leave which is likely the reason he will leave.

Either Way exciting times! Just hope my little guy wont jump on the oilers band wagon if he’s stuck watching this team suffer for a bit!

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I honestly think the whole dressing room disfunction is overblown. Feels more like pending UFAs who don't want to commit yet without seeing what the longterm plan of the Flames are. Hanifin sounds like he just wants to go play in the States, Backlund wants to chase a cup, Toffoli wants a longer term deal, and Lindholm has a number he wants.

That's how I see it too. Maybe if they don't have a bad season Hanafin still wants to go back to the US and they still don't want to give Toffoli that much term so he still asks for a trade. But maybe Lindholm and Backlund are more optimistic and are willing to sacrifice maybe getting more next summer to stay.

[Saqe]

Yeah Rhett was really hammering the players pretty hard. He has a point, need guys that want to be in Calgary and play for the love of the game not just for the big ticket.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Yeah Rhett was really hammering the players pretty hard. He has a point, need guys that want to be in Calgary and play for the love of the game not just for the big ticket.

Rhett had the fire of a preacher today- his other great point on Huberdeau: he had 115 points a year ago, all of a sudden he has no value in the league? Eat $2M and make it palatable for someone to take him, and if he has a hundred points, accept it and move on.”

Yes. 1,000,000 times, yes.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Rhett had the fire of a preacher today- his other great point on Huberdeau: he had 115 points a year ago, all of a sudden he has no value in the league? Eat $2M and make it palatable for someone to take him, and if he has a hundred points, accept it and move on.”

Yes. 1,000,000 times, yes.

Rhett subtlely insinuated that the new guys may be the problem, when they came in everything went sideways and now all the old crew with contracts ending want out. If that's the case (no idea if it is but it's not like guys are screaming they want to stay) then you probably just have to cut bait, even retain if needed like you said. Right now Huby is unmovable but he will bounce back and then you can probably do it.

[Finger Cookin]

We need players in the complete opposite mold. Players who hate the game and play for free.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

100%

There was not one mention of the room being broken in 21-22. There were some rumors of Gio and Tkachuk (and I know Gio doesn't like him for a fact) but Gio was gone and all seemed fine.

The narrative throughout 21-22 was they all loved playing together...until they didn't.

Gaudreau was the first domino and now it's the domino effect. It's unfortunate but I think people are reading too much into what is just a business decision for these guys.

Why would you re-sign a year early when the team doesn't look like it's going to be a contender and in the case of Hanifin / Backlund / Toffoli don't want to overpay with term or $$$.

The team has a different core than it had two season ago. Pro sports is extremely status-driven, and the guys getting the big bucks are the top dogs.

Two years ago the top dogs were:

Gaudreau
Monahan
Tkachuk
Backlund
Lindholm
Hanifin

Last season the top dogs were:

Huberdeau
Kadri
Weegar
Backlund
Mangiapane
Hanifin

Very different core. Different pecking order. Different group dynamic.

Did last season’s team really look like a bunch of guys playing and fighting for one another?

Warrener isn’t a hockey savant. But he’s probably a pretty good judge of team dynamics and chemistry. I believe him when he says the team looks like it has big locker room problems.

[StrykerSteve]

Warrener is spot on.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Yep good listen today. Rhett especially was echoing a lot of the stuff that's bothered me with all the latest news about players not willing to re-sign.

Management listened to the players and fired the coach when it was clear the players weren't going to come back if things don't change. Coach is fired, and now the players are still tripping over each other heading for the door (presumably). Well, great.

Burn it down and start over at the draft this summer. We need young players all coming up at the same time, I liked Rhett's point about how that's what the room needs to reset itself and how those young guys will be hungry and excited to play for Calgary.

I think Rhett is bang on with everything he said regarding it not being "the right mix" in the dressing room right now. I suspect there are some conflicts between new players brought in, and the guys who have been around for a while. And even though it is a new GM, I suspect they don't like how the team managed itself into the situation they did. With free agency coming up soon for a lot of them, they don't really have time to wait and see how Conroy does before locking in.

Echoing what they were both saying, but it is time to go ahead with youth. Guys want to play for the Flames and will take ownership of the team for the next several years. Lindholm and Backlund were those guys for a long time and I think they took a lot of pride and ownership, but with all the personnel changes, they probably don't feel like it is their team anymore.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I agree with most of what Rhett said

Treliving failed to manage it and left a mess

He was silent on Kadri, though, and that is the guy that most obviously appeared to have quit on the team. Be interested to hear his thoughts on him

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree with most of what Rhett said

Treliving failed to manage it and left a mess

He was silent on Kadri, though, and that is the guy that most obviously appeared to have quit on the team. Be interested to hear his thoughts on him

When he mentioned problems in the room with players I just assumed he was alluding to Kadri and one or two others but definitely Kadri.