Explosion near Stadium in Paris, multiple shootings and hostage taking...

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Unfortunately, there is only one way to walk away from the middle east, and that is true isolation.

I have a problem with this strategy for the simple reason that as horrible as what happened today was, it's a Sunday afternoon picnic as compared to what one might laughingly refer to as the life of persecuted groups in a modern Caliphate. The worst sufferers of fundamentalist Islamist regimes, certainly the worst sufferers of Isis, are Muslim. Abandoning them because they had the misfortune of being born in that part of the world just strikes me as horribly wrong.

Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments.

Frankly, and it sounds like a political line designed to get applause, but the most effective thing that could be done would be the empowerment of women as equal citizens rather than chattels. Obviously easier said than done, but this should really be the primary goal of modern feminism.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Unfortunately, there is only one way to walk away from the middle east, and that is true isolation. It is pretty clear that no one has the stomach for that, either economically or socially. It may also not work at all, as consolidation of power into the hands of the few will just perpetuate itself.

The option that would be ideal, is to find a way to get the 4.5 million soldiers under arms in north africa to take an active and aggressive role against extremism. Up till now, there isn't much interest in pursuing that, outside of Turkey, Jordan and the recently crushed (by us) army of Iraq.

Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments.

Well, that or the more practical solution - you keep the Saddams, Assads and El-Sisis in power because that's turned out to have been the least bad option... Not saying it's morally right, but in the world of power politics...

[sureLoss]

[Winsor_Pilates]

I was just staying on Place de la Republique less than 2 months ago on my honeymoon. Today, it's the scene of one of the attacks.

Terribly sad, and really makes it hit home when you were just at one of these locations and could have been sitting inside that restaurant.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Well, that or the more practical solution - you keep the Saddams, Assads and El-Sisis in power because that's turned out to have been the least bad option... Not saying it's morally right, but in the world of power politics...

Couldn't disagree more, short-term stability by brutal dictators plays a role in long-term radicalization.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

New York Daily News has maybe the most disgusting cover in history for its paper tomorrow. Not gonna post any links or pics, but they are going to get lit up.

You should google the rest of the covers for the newspaper
https://www.google.ca/search?q=new+y...IQzgyg5j8pU%3D

[GirlySports]

do you guys think they attacked the concert because they're anti-music?
ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban are anti arts. Music and tv banned in Taliban Afghanistan

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

do you guys think they attacked the concert because they're anti-music?
ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban are anti arts. Music and tv banned in Taliban Afghanistan

My friends from Paris said that the bataclan is a famous concert place there and on a Friday night it would have been packed. That coupled with the stade de France thing it might have just been the highest concentration of people thing. I know U2 is tomorrow night but this might have been done because they knew politicians etc would have been at the soccer match.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Unfortunately, there is only one way to walk away from the middle east, and that is true isolation. It is pretty clear that no one has the stomach for that, either economically or socially. It may also not work at all, as consolidation of power into the hands of the few will just perpetuate itself.

The option that would be ideal, is to find a way to get the 4.5 million soldiers under arms in north africa to take an active and aggressive role against extremism. Up till now, there isn't much interest in pursuing that, outside of Turkey, Jordan and the recently crushed (by us) army of Iraq.

Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments.

If I had time for this, the bolded could be a fascinating argument, I don't buy your thesis.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments.

This is the only real lasting solution. Problem is, that would involve discrediting a 2000 year old book that is heralded by many of its adherents as the unobjectionable word of god. That is a tall order, especially when even "free thinkers" in the west won't even do it.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Couldn't disagree more, short-term stability by brutal dictators plays a role in long-term radicalization.

The dictatorships bred this extremism with heavy handed oppression and theft of hope for a dignified life.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The dictatorships bred this extremism with heavy handed oppression and theft of hope for a dignified life.

Did they? It seems this all stems from Afghanistan and Americans/Pakistanis stirring up opposition to the Soviets. They loined the zealots to fight the godless Communists and then the Soviets left and the bearded fellows had nothing to do... Nasser/Sadat, Assad Sr. and Saddam had been in power for many decades without much ado...

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Did they? It seems this all stems from Afghanistan and Americans/Pakistanis stirring up opposition to the Soviets. They loined the zealots to fight the godless Communists and then the Soviets left and the bearded fellows had nothing to do... Nasser/Sadat, Assad Sr. and Saddam had been in power for many decades without much ado...

I agree with this. There is obviously going to be a large amount of discontent in dictatorships but these groups only seem to thrive in areas that are completely lawless.

All of the funding, training, and leadership of these groups happens to take place in places like Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc.

Any power vacuum is a beacon for these zealots and it's these locales that allow these groups to gain fame, followers and funding.

Someone trying to start up a group such as this in Saddam's country would have had insurmountable obstacles.

Starting up a group in Afghanistan for instance gives them a platform to have success on the ground which gives them legitimacy in the eyes of those who would be likely to join such a group and an easy path for those wishing to follow.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Did they? It seems this all stems from Afghanistan and Americans/Pakistanis stirring up opposition to the Soviets. They loined the zealots to fight the godless Communists and then the Soviets left and the bearded fellows had nothing to do... Nasser/Sadat, Assad Sr. and Saddam had been in power for many decades without much ado...

Afghanistan gave them a place to meet up and cut their teeth in combat. But these guys were disenfranchised long before that. The move towards being hardliners really took hold as a result of life under dictatorships like Nasser, Al Saud etc. Sadat was killed by extremists within the Egyptian military.

Using Egypt as an example, the country was far more liberal 70 years ago when they lived under the monarchy. It was only after the Military took over did the oppression start and the move towards hardline religion begin.

The dictatorships robbed the countries of their treasure and caused the exodus of the intelligensia. Locking people up for political activities and torturing them in prison caused the radicalization of thousands of people.

[Dion]

There are times I wish I was never born and didn't have to live in a world full of hate. This is one of those days.

[Harry Lime]

.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If I had time for this, the bolded could be a fascinating argument, I don't buy your thesis.

Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments to the degree that uneducated people, living under a violent, socially repressive regime of disinformation will, especially those that find justification for every action they take in the poetry found in an ancient book. Education leads to curiosity, leads to questioning, leads to rational thought before action. I'm talking in terms of millions of people, and not individuals, as a general and not strict rule. Millions of rationally thinking people must be ISIS's worst nightmare. Millions of rationally thinking women and they would pass out. (I didn't mean that to be derogatory)

Education separate of religion would be a long term solution to the degree that it was a solution in the West. Corsi is right, empowerment of women is equally transformative. The Caliphate is living in the Dark Ages. It will come out of it the same way we did, 500 years later.

I realize I just made an even bigger philosophical and historical premise to be argued about, but taken simplistically, I believe that I am right. Sorry, to everyone, for slightly derailing.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Did they? It seems this all stems from Afghanistan and Americans/Pakistanis stirring up opposition to the Soviets. They loined the zealots to fight the godless Communists and then the Soviets left and the bearded fellows had nothing to do... Nasser/Sadat, Assad Sr. and Saddam had been in power for many decades without much ado...

It was all bubbling up under the surface, and there were major incidents, Sadat for example was assassinated by radicals (and he was nowhere near as brutal as saddam/assad/etc).

[Byrns]

I don't see many Cubans or North Koreans blowing themselves up.

[sharkov]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

New York Daily News has maybe the most disgusting cover in history for its paper tomorrow. Not gonna post any links or pics, but they are going to get lit up.

does not surprise me as when a reporter was shot a few months ago and the killer recorded it on his go pro camera, they posted his view on their front page.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Byrns

I don't see many Cubans or North Koreans blowing themselves up.

They don't have the resources even in they wanted to.

Educating the masses would be the ideal solution although I think its pretty unattainable in the foreseeable future. Look at the issues in Canada alone trying to help the native population catch up to the majority.

Probably the most achievable solution is weening the world off oil and converting to other enegery sources. Without big revenue from oil, these extremist groups would no longer have their Arab oil baron benefactors keeping the war machine rolling.

Long term solution for sure, but its something that could conceivably happen in our lifetimes.