[Rumour] Dreger: Calgary pushing hard for Talbot. McKenzie: Flames have interest in Jones too

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And given that multiple teams have interest, it isn't just the Flames' brass that seems to think this guy has something.
I'm not going to state an opinion on Talbot because frankly I've barely watched him. Which I suspect is the case for many here.

Admittedly, I've only seen a little of him but it's the idea of trading for a backup goalie, who puts up good numbers in limited starts, from one of the best defensive teams in the league that scares me.

Ben Scrivens, Jonathan Bernier, Tim Thomas, Ilya Brygalov, Roman Cechmanek, and Scott Clemmenson are just a few examples of net minders who saw their play decline once they left the comforts of elite defensive teams. Inversely, Brian Elliot goes from statistically the worst goalie in the league to one of the statistical best, Devan Dubnyk goes from having "a lot of bad habits" according to Barry Trotz, who buried him in the minors and traded him shortly after, to a Vezina nominee in the span of a year and a half. They're still the same goalies; the team in front of them is the only thing different.

As for Talbot, since 2008, the New York Rangers the Rangers have been top 9 in goals against. They've been top 5 in every year year except for two(2009 and 2010), in fact. In that time, goaltenders such as Steve Valiquette had a line of 2.19/.916, Martin Biron lines of 2.13/.923 and 2.32/.917, Chad Johnson 2.35/.919(in 5 games) and now there's the late blossoming Cam Talbot with the 2.21/.926 line. Talbot's 34 starts last year are a larger sample size than any of the others, which is fair enough, but I'd argue that's still statistically insignificant.

Now, you might say, "the Flames see something they like in Cam Talbot that makes him different." My response would be that he was probably available for free up until this year. If they liked his athleticism, flexibility, positioning, physique, demeanour, or whatever and thought he had potential, they would have picked him up at the time. I'm sure they would have rolled the dice on a young netminder, instead of giving the known journeyman Joey MacDonald 21 starts in 2012, especially since they were happy to test out the unknown Reto Berra the following year - and somehow conned Patrick Roy out of a 2nd for him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

A lot of people in this thread have a lot of faith in Hiller/Ortio tandem. While Hiller was solid last year, he often looked like he was about to fall off the rails and Hartley would switch to Ramo, letting Hiller get it together again. If the same pattern holds true, using Ortio as they did Ramo next year could blow up big time. There is a lot of potential risk, at the moment, with the Flames goaltending situation.

Ortio looked pretty comfortable in his 6 games. But I'm not too worried about results for next year - it's still a rebuilding year and at some point Ortio or Gillies are going to have to take the next big step. Gillies needs lots of games and he won't get them if Ortio is in Stockton.

I don't see any way Ortio doesn't start the season in Calgary. And the starter will be Hiller unless Treliving makes a great deal for someone (I don't see an overpayment in the works).

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't get this. Ortio has been great. AHL all star that killed it when he was up last year and Hiller is obviously a solid 1a/b guy.

Not a fan at all. We're set in goal. Why waste assets on more goalies.

100% agree.

[SuperMatt18]

Speaking of Jonathan Bernier...I am surprised there have been no rumors for Bernier or Reimer with all the talk of goalies being traded.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

This is about another goalie playing in the NHL for the next 3-4 seasons. It's not a condemnation of the goalies coming up in the system. It probably also speaks as to the value Treliving sees on the FA goalie market - acquiring and re-signing one through a trade may be more attractive than paying the FA prices in terms of dollar and term.

This is about giving up two highly valuable second round picks, if not more, for a goaltender who comes from a system that routinely makes goaltenders look better than they are, and would in your view be effectively a stop-gap goalie. Netminders of Cam Talbot's pedigree can be found about anywhere, and Glen Sather is looking to make a sucker out of someone.

[J79]

Just a question; Is a team allowed to keep 3 goalies on the main team?

Let's say the Flames add Talbot and keep Hiller and Ortio. Then after 2 months or so into next season decide to keep either Hiller or Ortio and trade the other one?

Far from an ideal situation though.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Dagger

This is about giving up two highly valuable second round picks, if not more, for a goaltender who comes from a system that routinely makes goaltenders look better than they are, and would in your view be effectively a stop-gap goalie. Netminders of Cam Talbot's pedigree can be found about anywhere, and Glen Sather is looking to make a sucker out of someone.

You may be right. We'll see!

The 3-4 years would be time to evaluate Talbot, Ortio, and Gilles, and then decide how to proceed. It gives the Flames more flexibility and options than only having Ortio and Gilles signed after next season, and exploring the trade or FA market for another goalie at that time.

[JohnnyTitan]

What if Mason McDonald is part of the package for Talbot? Would people be happier with:
a) 2x 2nds in the 2015 draft, or
b) McDonald and one 2nd in this draft.

I suppose in either case you may be able to recoup a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Hiller.

I'm just thinking that Gillis is 3 years away and at that time we could still have Talbot, Ortio and Gillis as assets. It's nice to have McDonald for the long-long term, but do we really need to be addressing our goalie situation 8 or 9 years from now?

McDonald was an early 2nd rounder which maybe makes the price higher than two 2nds this draft, but personally I'd rather see us part with him as I think we have a long-term log-jam at the position but an immediate need. Plus it might make sense for the Rangers as they'll need some succession planning in 4-5 years..right when MM should be hitting his NHL stride. Although Sather / Rangers have never shown any patience, so they probably want a more immediate asset.

Honestly -> I hope we do nothing. I seem to have more faith in Ortio than anyone.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by J79

Just a question; Is a team allowed to keep 3 goalies on the main team?

Let's say the Flames add Talbot and keep Hiller and Ortio. Then after 2 months or so into next season decide to keep either Hiller or Ortio and trade the other one?

Far from an ideal situation though.

Sure. It would just mean a maximum of two extra skaters on your roster instead of three though.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by J79

Just a question; Is a team allowed to keep 3 goalies on the main team?

Let's say the Flames add Talbot and keep Hiller and Ortio. Then after 2 months or so into next season decide to keep either Hiller or Ortio and trade the other one?

Far from an ideal situation though.

Yes they can carry 23 people on the roster until the trade deadline. But can only dress 2 goalies per game.

Just for reference Hartley hates having 3 goalies.

[GioforPM]

[QUOTE=J79;5343418]Just a question; Is a team allowed to keep 3 goalies on the main team?

[QUOTE]

Yes.

The Flames ended the season with 3 goalies on the active roster IIRC.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTitan

What if Mason McDonald is part of the package for Talbot? Would people be happier with:
a) 2x 2nds in the 2015 draft, or
b) McDonald and one 2nd in this draft.

I suppose in either case you may be able to recoup a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Hiller.

I'm just thinking that Gillis is 3 years away and at that time we could still have Talbot, Ortio and Gillis as assets. It's nice to have McDonald for the long-long term, but do we really need to be addressing our goalie situation 8 or 9 years from now?

McDonald was an early 2nd rounder which maybe makes the price higher than two 2nds this draft, but personally I'd rather see us part with him as I think we have a long-term log-jam at the position but an immediate need. Plus it might make sense for the Rangers as they'll need some succession planning in 4-5 years..right when MM should be hitting his NHL stride. Although Sather / Rangers have never shown any patience, so they probably want a more immediate asset.

Honestly -> I hope we do nothing. I seem to have more faith in Ortio than anyone.

Why?

[polak]

Originally Posted by heep223

Why?

AHL all star that had the best stint out of all of our goalies while up this past season?

[sureLoss]

Dhiren Mahiban @dcmahiban
I'm told the #LAkings & RFA G Martin Jones will resume contract talks once the market settles.

[bax]

Originally Posted by polak

AHL all star that had the best stint out of all of our goalies while up this past season?

Ramo and Hiller had plenty of good 5 game stints. 5 games is not an adequate sample size at all

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by polak

AHL all star that had the best stint out of all of our goalies while up this past season?

It was a 6 game sample. And I don't actually think it was the best 6 game run out of the goalies.

IMO Ortio looked great in 2, good in 2 and merely OK in 2.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I'm curious to hear, if we ever do, why Ramo isn't returning.

the most likely answer is he wants a lot of money, more than the Flames are willing to pay.

[ClubFlames]

Flames pushing hard for Talbot
Very surprised if he gets traded to Calgary
Jones on the market
Jones and Kings to resume contract talks.

This is all just a huge mind######.

[JohnnyTitan]

Originally Posted by heep223

Why?

I guess I'm willing to gamble two 2nd round picks to see what we have in him this season (2015/2016). Has he shown anything we should be uber-scared of? As someone mentioned, AHL All-Star and a great 5-game stint in the NHL.

If our tandem blows-up in fantastic fashion it seems as though:
a) You can address it mid-season
b) You have not jeopardized a season we're "Making a run for it"

But all the while you have your two 2nds. And I just don't think it would blow up that bad with Hiller / Ortio.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by polak

AHL all star that had the best stint out of all of our goalies while up this past season?

Originally Posted by JohnnyTitan

I guess I'm willing to gamble two 2nd round picks to see what we have in him this season (2015/2016). Has he shown anything we should be uber-scared of? As someone mentioned, AHL All-Star and a great 5-game stint in the NHL.

If our tandem blows-up in fantastic fashion it seems as though:
a) You can address it mid-season
b) You have not jeopardized a season we're "Making a run for it"

But all the while you have your two 2nds. And I just don't think it would blow up that bad with Hiller / Ortio.

I have high hopes for Ortio also. We are going to need a goalie that's going to play 1A in front of him/with him next season, and I agree with you that I think it should be Hiller. But for whatever reason it seems like the Flames don't want Hiller to be that goalie.

I find this all very confusing. And exciting.