Israel declares war on Hamas

[Doctorfever]

Well one is too many. One was too many before Oct 7 and one is too many now.

[Doctorfever]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-bank-idf-says

Apparently, a high ranking Hamas killed by drone strike.

Good news that he was killed. Bad news is that the war might now be further escalated.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-bank-idf-says

Apparently, a high ranking Hamas killed by drone strike.

Good news that he was killed. Bad news is that the war might now be further escalated.

This one could create some problems. He was killed in Lebanon. He'd also been forced out of Turkey, who could be seen as exposing him to the Israelis.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Well one is too many. One was too many before Oct 7 and one is too many now.

Well that unequivocally answered my question.

In answer to yours, Hamas won’t and wouldn’t stop. Had they somehow had the chance, on 7 October, they’d have wiped out every single Israeli in the country.

Hamas, as an organisation, are unspeakably evil. But the Palestinian people are not. But they, more than any in the region, have the least, suffered the most and the assault by Israel, in Gaza, is not distinguishing between what is a legitimate target, and what is not. And that is why, those, with the least, with no way of protecting themselves or their families, are being made to suffer the most.

Wipe out Hamas by all means. In fact, please do - but not like this. Even in battle, we have a duty to protect those that are non combatants and vulnerable.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by blankall

This one could create some problems. He was killed in Lebanon. He'd also been forced out of Turkey, who could be seen as exposing him to the Israelis.

Qatar next?

[afc wimbledon]

I don't see any major escalation, Hamas and Palestinians in general are useful Sunni idiots, nothing more, Iran uses them but Lebanon/Hezbollah are broke and in massive economic trouble, Syria is still a mess and stuck in a low level but extremely active (as in daily shellfire and bombings) civil war that the west has forgotten, Turkey is a constant menace from the north and various factions of ISIS and the Kurds are still fighting Hezbollah and the Druze for huge chunks of Syria.

Hamas didnt clear their actions with anyone by all accounts and so they are on their own in practice, between Yaman, Syria and Lebanon and sizable civil disorder at home Iran are already over stretched, they will Sabre rattle but that's about it.

[Bagor]

Good surgical strike.
Minimal civilian damage (if any). Go figure.
Who cares where he was. He's dead.
No different to the Americans going into Pakistan to get their man. Had to be done.

[WCW Nitro]

For anyone who still thinks this war is about just eliminating Hamas.

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-e...rate-from-gaza

State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said Washington "rejects recent statements from Israeli ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir advocating for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza".

"This rhetoric is inflammatory and irresponsible," added Miller, who reiterated the "clear, consistent, and unequivocal" US position that "Gaza is Palestinian land and will remain Palestinian land, with Hamas no longer in control of its future and with no terror groups able to threaten Israel".

Ben-Gvir, Israel's firebrand national security minister, had called on Monday for promoting "a solution to encourage the emigration of Gaza's residents".

The far-right minister hit back at the US late on Tuesday over its criticism of his push for the transfer of Palestinians out of Gaza.

"The United States is our best friend, but first of all we will do what is best for the State of Israel: the migration of hundreds of thousands from Gaza will allow the (Israeli) residents of the envelope to return home and live in security and will protect the IDF (Israeli) soldiers," the far-right minister posted on X.

[PsYcNeT]

Well I for one am shocked that they would propose this Final Solution for the Palestinian people.

[Fl4me5]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well I for one am shocked that they would propose this Final Solution for the Palestinian people.

Wow, equating the resettlement of a group of people to hopefully give them a better life and opportunity to a systemic extermination of people is a new low.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't even agree with this solution, despite my biases.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

Wow, equating the resettlement of a group of people to hopefully give them a better life and opportunity to a systemic extermination of people is a new low.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't even agree with this solution, despite my biases.

I also disagree with him equating this to the final solution but think you are being a bit naive with your “resettlement of a group of people to hopefully give them a better life”. I don’t think that’s Israel’s care at all, they just want them gone from their homes and not sure they care about the outcome of that.

[Language]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

For anyone who still thinks this war is about just eliminating Hamas.

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-e...rate-from-gaza

State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said Washington "rejects recent statements from Israeli ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir advocating for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza".

"This rhetoric is inflammatory and irresponsible," added Miller, who reiterated the "clear, consistent, and unequivocal" US position that "Gaza is Palestinian land and will remain Palestinian land, with Hamas no longer in control of its future and with no terror groups able to threaten Israel".

Ben-Gvir, Israel's firebrand national security minister, had called on Monday for promoting "a solution to encourage the emigration of Gaza's residents".

The far-right minister hit back at the US late on Tuesday over its criticism of his push for the transfer of Palestinians out of Gaza.

"The United States is our best friend, but first of all we will do what is best for the State of Israel: the migration of hundreds of thousands from Gaza will allow the (Israeli) residents of the envelope to return home and live in security and will protect the IDF (Israeli) soldiers," the far-right minister posted on X.

You’re serious?

Israel wanted nothing to do with Gaza prior to Oct 7th. They did not start this war or want it.

You’re quoting literally two of the most extreme fringe that exists in the Israeli government. That’s not the viewpoint shared by majority of Israeli society, or at least it wasn’t before 10/7.

This is akin to me saying that all Palestinians want Jews dead because Hamas does.


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[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Language

You’re serious?

Israel wanted nothing to do with Gaza prior to Oct 7th. They did not start this war or want it.

You’re quoting literally two of the most extreme fringe that exists in the Israeli government. That’s not the viewpoint shared by majority of Israeli society, or at least it wasn’t before 10/7.

This is akin to me saying that all Palestinians want Jews dead because Hamas does.


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This is a very flat interpretation of the history in the region.

[PepsiFree]

Not only a flat interpretation, but I’m surprised it’s now acceptable to equate the Israeli government to Hamas by even pro-Israeli folks. Seems like their actions and positions are getting less defensible by the day.

[Swift]

There was an article this morning which is timely to this conversation about the rise of genocidal language among public figures in Israel

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nocide-in-gaza

[Language]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not only a flat interpretation, but I’m surprised it’s now acceptable to equate the Israeli government to Hamas by even pro-Israeli folks. Seems like their actions and positions are getting less defensible by the day.

It’s not a flat interpretation because I was referring to Gaza in its current form - call it, post 2005 when Israel pulled its stakes and left.

Of course if we continue to look back in time there can be a never-ending argument, that’s fairly obvious.

You’re all telling me that if 10/7 didn’t happen, Israel would have found some reason to start a ground invasion and bombardment? Have they just been waiting for the right time to do this, all the while letting the population of Gaza grow, just to make life more difficult for themselves, when it’s time to round them all up and send them on their merry way?

Regarding Hamas - I’m comparing the two, because of the oft heard assertion that Hamas does not represent the prevailing Palestinian viewpoint, even though they were elected by Palestinians and their doctrine has always been to destroy Israel, even when they were legitimately elected. If we’re going to say that they don’t speak for the common people, then it’s more than fair to say that about some fringe elements in the Israeli government.

Fine, I can use another comparison. If Marjorie Taylor Greene or some other US political nut job makes weird statements, then should that also be used as a representative sample of US plans and aspirations?


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[Fuzz]

"Ben-Gvir, Israel's firebrand national security minister"


This seems more than just some obscure back bencher. This is the guy heavily involved making the calls.


Is it so hard to comprehend there are Israeli's that feel this way?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Now that various Israeli officials have:

- admitted they had no interest in the Oslo accords and worked to undermine them and undermine the establishment of a Palestinian state

- supported Hamas as a way to destabilize the Palestinian population and its goals

- openly talked about displacing all the citizens of Gaza

- talked about depriving Gazans of food and water in order to entice them to turn on each other

Does anyone want to re-assess their view of this conflict? These revelations sure seem counter to a lot of claims that were (ahem) strongly claimed in this thread regarding the Israeli government and its ambitions, both short and long term.

[Azure]

I think we should reassess it as far as following the billions of dollars that have been sent to Gaza that has been used not for aid, but to help Hamas build up military infrastructure to attack Israel.

When can we do that?

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Language

It’s not a flat interpretation because I was referring to Gaza in its current form - call it, post 2005 when Israel pulled its stakes and left.

Of course if we continue to look back in time there can be a never-ending argument, that’s fairly obvious.

You’re all telling me that if 10/7 didn’t happen, Israel would have found some reason to start a ground invasion and bombardment? Have they just been waiting for the right time to do this, all the while letting the population of Gaza grow, just to make life more difficult for themselves, when it’s time to round them all up and send them on their merry way?

Regarding Hamas - I’m comparing the two, because of the oft heard assertion that Hamas does not represent the prevailing Palestinian viewpoint, even though they were elected by Palestinians and their doctrine has always been to destroy Israel, even when they were legitimately elected. If we’re going to say that they don’t speak for the common people, then it’s more than fair to say that about some fringe elements in the Israeli government.

Fine, I can use another comparison. If Marjorie Taylor Greene or some other US political nut job makes weird statements, then should that also be used as a representative sample of US plans and aspirations?


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How many times does this need to be dispelled? 70% of the population of Gaza is under the age of 30. The last elections to take place in Gaza were 2006. To be an age of majority (18, same as Canada) you would have to be 35 years old today. As such over 70% of the population had no hand in voting in Hamas and they never had the opportunity to elect their leaders.