2016 NHL Draft

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

I watched a few games online, and he seems to take a few shifts off. He reminds me of a skilled Rene Borque without the sand paper. He has all the tools in the world, but seems to scatter them around when he is in his own end. I find he gets lost easily when defending, which makes him scramble.

I also know it isn't a super valid source, but I have a friend who lives in Mississauga and takes in games regularly as the company he works for has season tickets. He has told me nothing but bad things about Nylander and his attitude. Often blames his teammates and appears to think he is the reason the Steelheads are so good.

Also, he kicked my dog and peed in my cornflakes.

So the main concerns are that he is bad defensively, which isn't all that surprising for an 18 year old in his first year in the OHL and that he has attitude issues. If that is true, then I have no doubt our management will find this out. They'll speak to his coaches in their due diligence. I'm sure they'll have spotted these issues just like your friend has.

[kyuss275]

Can somebody who has watched Gauthier live many times tell me what's wrong with his game if anything?

I have only watched highlights and read things about him , but for the life of me i don't understand how he is not top 10 in all publications. Hell from what i have seen he seems like a top 6 pick.

[Samonadreau]

How did Joe Levy look today?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Can somebody who has watched Gauthier live many times tell me what's wrong with his game if anything?

I have only watched highlights and read things about him , but for the life of me i don't understand how he is not top 10 in all publications. Hell from what i have seen he seems like a top 6 pick.

From the top prospects game and WJC he was pretty underwhelming but those are small sample sizes.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

but for the life of me i don't understand how he is not top 10 in all publications. Hell from what i have seen he seems like a top 6 pick.

16 assists in 54 games is a red flag to a guy in a top line role on his team, and I think so is the fact that his torrid goal production slowed to a virtual halt in the second half.

For some comparision, these are the other CHL draft eligibles:
Tkachuk - 77 assists in 57 games
Dubois - 57 assists in 62 games
Brown - 53 assists in 59 games
McLeod - 40 assists in 57 games
Jones - 24 assists in 63 games, middle six role
DeBrincat - 50 assists in 60 games
Howden - 40 assists in 68 games
Benson - 19 assists in 30 games
Katchouk - 27 assists in 63 games
Laberge - 45 assists in 63 games
Abramov - 55 assists in 63 games
Steel - 47 in 72 games

It's everything good about Gauthier that's keeping him in the top 20, because those are not the passing stats of a typical first round pick.

Those kind of goal-heavy draft year splits remind me of Jake Virtanen...

[Caged Great]

Even Anthony Mantha, who also had troubles using his linemates in Juniors only had 11 more goals than assists and he fell to the late teens. Gauthier had 25 more goals than assists.

That tends to show that he does not know how to utilize his teammates effectively. If he can't figure out how to use his linemates, then plays will die on his stick as he will be easy to defend against, which means he'll become a bust. That's why there's a red flag. It might be entirely overblown, it might not.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

I watched a few games online, and he seems to take a few shifts off. He reminds me of a skilled Rene Borque without the sand paper. He has all the tools in the world, but seems to scatter them around when he is in his own end. I find he gets lost easily when defending, which makes him scramble.

I also know it isn't a super valid source, but I have a friend who lives in Mississauga and takes in games regularly as the company he works for has season tickets. He has told me nothing but bad things about Nylander and his attitude. Often blames his teammates and appears to think he is the reason the Steelheads are so good.

Also, he kicked my dog and peed in my cornflakes.

Way more skilled than Bourque. Nylander has a much better set of tools, uses them effectively and hustles. As for the defensive part tell me, if we were offered Patrick Kane would you say no because he is a skilled offensive player?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nylander hustles.

TBQH I haven't seen Nylander hustle. That's my reservation with him, just reminds me of Sven. And I bought into the Sven hype.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not a big fan of Nylander. I would want Jost, Keller, Brown, the 3 D and maybe a couple of others after the 'big 5' we gone.

With that being said, I do think that Nylander will be a very good complimentary player for the Flames on either of the top 2 lines. I just really don't like his motor, and other than offence, brings no other attributes to the team.

Jost has a beautiful non-stop motor to go with his abundance of skills. Would love to see him next to Bennett. Brown offers very high skill and a large frame that will make it difficult - and different - for teams to try and stop him - he can make a lot of room out there for our existing players, and still contribute offensively and defensively.

Keller is (imo) a higher skilled player than Nylander, without being much smaller. I think he has a way better motor and plays with much more tenacity as well. Heck, he may be more highly skilled. It is close.

I would also prefer any of the 3 higher-end D - Juolevi, Sergachev and probably Chychrun (though for me, this is getting close, as my like of Chychrun is diminishing). They will all probably hold better value in 2-5 years than Nylander.

I don't hate Nylander. I think he is a guaranteed NHL'er who will probably end up with 50 point seasons fairly regularly, and perhaps even a 70 point season or two in his career, with everything going right.

I just see the Flames as having enough offensive guys. I would like to see this team being built as a more tenacious team. Guys with non-stop motors all being puck-hounds giving other teams fits on the forecheck and backcheck, and then giving teams even more fits because they can score at a high clip. I would love for them to add some muscle in the top 6 as well, even if that muscle isn't bowling guys over - at least he will be effective on a cycle, or can at least disrupt the cycle, and gives the Flames a viable matchup against the other big centers in the league.

The guys I mentioned help the Flames address what I would like to see. Nylander doesn't - outside of just giving the other team fits on the offensive side. Jost over Nylander any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

TBQH I haven't seen Nylander hustle. That's my reservation with him, just reminds me of Sven. And I bought into the Sven hype.

Well I follow the OHL very closely and I can say Nylander hustles when I have seen him. He is a very cerebral player much like Johnny.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Way more skilled than Bourque. Nylander has a much better set of tools, uses them effectively and hustles. As for the defensive part tell me, if we were offered Patrick Kane would you say no because he is a skilled offensive player?

1) He effectively uses his tools in the offensive zone. He all but gives up from the red line and out. That includes hustling.

2) Kane isn't a liability. Kane plays well from his blue line in.

3) I'm not saying no to Nylander because he is skilled. I'm saying no to Nylander because because I see shades of Hall. A skilled 1-way player.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

1) He effectively uses his tools in the offensive zone. He all but gives up from the red line and out. That includes hustling.

2) Kane isn't a liability. Kane plays well from his blue line in.

3) I'm not saying no to Nylander because he is skilled. I'm saying no to Nylander because because I see shades of Hall. A skilled 1-way player.

You never know though.

Kane wasn't always the player he is now. It took him years to get his all-around game and effort to where it is now.

Give me a player like an 18 year old Hall in a good system, and I'll show you a player nothing like the current Hall in 5 years.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

http://thehockeywriters.com/2016-nhl...act-prospects/

Jost is up to #5 overall on this ranking. Very interesting comments on picks 4 to 8.

This snippet about Gauthier:

Julien Gauthier is number 13 on my list. They say Julien Gauthier is a one trick pony. He just drives to the net and scores goals. While there is some truth to that accusation,it’s a great trick to possess. Julien Gauthier is the real meal deal. He is the son of a former Mr. Canada and the grandson of “What was that again?” another former Mr. Canada. Julien Gauthier just skates too well, shoots too hard, runs through too many people, and finishes off too many goals for him not to be taken very high in this draft.

A 6'4" goal-poaching bull-dozer is exactly what I'd like to have on Johnny-Mony's RW.

A bit of tactical trading-down & a selection of Gauthier would be my ideal draft should the Finns, Dubois & Tkachuk be unavailable.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am not a big fan of Nylander. I would want Jost, Keller, Brown, the 3 D and maybe a couple of others after the 'big 5' we gone.

With that being said, I do think that Nylander will be a very good complimentary player for the Flames on either of the top 2 lines. I just really don't like his motor, and other than offence, brings no other attributes to the team.

Jost has a beautiful non-stop motor to go with his abundance of skills. Would love to see him next to Bennett. Brown offers very high skill and a large frame that will make it difficult - and different - for teams to try and stop him - he can make a lot of room out there for our existing players, and still contribute offensively and defensively.

Keller is (imo) a higher skilled player than Nylander, without being much smaller. I think he has a way better motor and plays with much more tenacity as well. Heck, he may be more highly skilled. It is close.

I would also prefer any of the 3 higher-end D - Juolevi, Sergachev and probably Chychrun (though for me, this is getting close, as my like of Chychrun is diminishing). They will all probably hold better value in 2-5 years than Nylander.

I don't hate Nylander. I think he is a guaranteed NHL'er who will probably end up with 50 point seasons fairly regularly, and perhaps even a 70 point season or two in his career, with everything going right.

I just see the Flames as having enough offensive guys. I would like to see this team being built as a more tenacious team. Guys with non-stop motors all being puck-hounds giving other teams fits on the forecheck and backcheck, and then giving teams even more fits because they can score at a high clip. I would love for them to add some muscle in the top 6 as well, even if that muscle isn't bowling guys over - at least he will be effective on a cycle, or can at least disrupt the cycle, and gives the Flames a viable matchup against the other big centers in the league.

The guys I mentioned help the Flames address what I would like to see. Nylander doesn't - outside of just giving the other team fits on the offensive side. Jost over Nylander any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I agree with you on Nylander. Something just seems off. May be too good to play in Calgary and screams entitlement. It may be a karma thing as well as his dad (who apparently plays a big part in his sons career) had issues with the coaches while he was here.

The upside is that all 3 F play C vs Nylander on the wing. If we take the organization at their word, they value the C over the W, all things being equal. Hopefully they have Nylander and Jost/Brown/Keller ranked close and they pick the C.

Wasn't impressed. With Juolevi in the final today. Just a steady unspectacular d. Need some sizzle along with the steak.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Way more skilled than Bourque. Nylander has a much better set of tools, uses them effectively and hustles. As for the defensive part tell me, if we were offered Patrick Kane would you say no because he is a skilled offensive player?

The issue I have with Nylander is there are a handful of guys every draft labeled as "one of the most skilled players in the draft" that come with big question marks. These are usually defensive awareness (or lack there of), prima donna attitude, and motivation and drive issues. And it seems like the majority of these players bust.

I'm not a fan of "safe" picks, but Nylander's upside isn't so much higher than the other guys around him that he's worth the relative risk. If Nylander doesn't turn into a high octane offensive winger, he will bring absolutely nothing to your team.

[Erick Estrada]

Not sure why Julien Gauthier is getting so much love. He's going to be picked after the first 15 picks and rightly so as he's the type of guy you see later in first rounds that aren't a complete package. You don't have a terrible season like the Flames just had to make a ridiculous move like trading back to pick the type of prospect that is available annually to the playoff teams in the back half of the first round. When you stink you owe it to the organization to utilize the high pick you earned with poor play and take one of the best talents in the draft. The Flames have three 2nd round picks to which they can reach to their hearts content but they have to get the first one right and picking Julien Gauthier would be a horrendous mistake.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

1) He effectively uses his tools in the offensive zone. He all but gives up from the red line and out. That includes hustling.

2) Kane isn't a liability. Kane plays well from his blue line in.

3) I'm not saying no to Nylander because he is skilled. I'm saying no to Nylander because because I see shades of Hall. A skilled 1-way player.

What?? Shades of Hall? You are totally off on that, Nylander is considered a high hockey IQ player. Hall, not so much. I think you are arguing against Nylander because you don't like the player. That is fine but don't make stuff up about him when every pro scout has said otherwise.

[Chingas]

I am not sure why I feel that I need to defend Nylander because I am not head over heels in love with him, and to be honest this is just scoreboard watching at this point. However a highly intellegent RW with 75 points in 57 regular season games, and 12 points in 6 playoff games all while playing in his first season in North America, sure seems like someone we could use. I am not sure where all of the talk of poor attitude and not playing well when it counts comes from as he delivered in the playoffs and played well in the world Juniors. Has anyone with any crediblity sited any attitude issues with him? Any interviews I have seen he sure comes accross as a humble kid.

If we have to "settle" for this kid at 6th I would be happy. I feel that taking a punt on someone who can turn into a real weapon is more valuable to us than a sure fire unspectacular defensman at this point in our rebuild. Nylander seems to me to be both bpa and fill a gap in the rw.

[Ashasx]

If the Flames go skill over size (whether thats Nylander, Jost, Keller, etc.), I am ready to trust their judgment.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Chingas

I am not sure why I feel that I need to defend Nylander because I am not head over heels in love with him, and to be honest this is just scoreboard watching at this point. However a highly intellegent RW with 75 points in 57 regular season games, and 12 points in 6 playoff games all while playing in his first season in North America, sure seems like someone we could use. I am not sure where all of the talk of poor attitude and not playing well when it counts comes from as he delivered in the playoffs and played well in the world Juniors. Has anyone with any crediblity sited any attitude issues with him? Any interviews I have seen he sure comes accross as a humble kid.

If we have to "settle" for this kid at 6th I would be happy. I feel that taking a punt on someone who can turn into a real weapon is more valuable to us than a sure fire unspectacular defensman at this point in our rebuild. Nylander seems to me to be both bpa and fill a gap in the rw.

I am coming across from the other side - I don't mind Nylander (and I was perhaps one of the few it seems that really appreciated his dad on the Flames).

75 points in 57 games - look at the guys in and around that 6th spot being talked about - those points aren't particularly 'amazing' - though his playoff points I think were pretty darn good.

If the Flames draft him, I won't hate it. I just see Nylander as one dimensional as it gets. Now, do I think the Flames would work with him and get him to grow in different areas? I think so. But that doesn't always work out (i.e. Baertschi).

I am not advocating Brown over Nylander. Or Jost over Nylander. Or Keller over Nylander. Etc.

I am advocating that the Flames continue to build what I think is their 'identity'. We have seen it the last few seasons now in Calgary - a tenacious hockey club that doesn't give up and doesn't back down, with speed and solid 2-way play. Now, with that being said, the majority of this past season was terrible, but I think most can follow along.

People are talking about Nylander like he is head and shoulders more offensive and highly skilled than his competition. I beg to differ.

Jost is right there. Keller is arguably even better skilled. I like these two more than Nylander because I see them fit 'better' organizationally (and I desperately want the Flames to get bigger, yet I like 2 smaller guys over Nylander). Why do I think they fit better? They seem to have a heck of a lot more tenacity in their games. I think they both have much higher motors.

Look at Logan Brown. 74 points in 59 games. Doesn't seem like Nylander is that much more productive to me. Brown also plays more defence - how many more points could be ARGUABLY have registered if he wasn't more responsible defensively (and yes, that is what scouts write as one of his strengths, though he isn't as defensively sound as a McLeod). If you followed him later into the season and especially in the U18s, he started to actually use his body, which maybe is indicative of becoming an even more attractive and important piece for the Flames.

I like Nylander's shot. I like Nylander's ability to generate offence. I just don't particularly see too many more strengths in his game. I especially hate it when I hear scouts saying: "We went to watch Nylander, and came away more impressed with McLeod". To me, that insinuates that Nylander isn't pushing the line, McLeod is.

If you take a look at Jost, Keller and Brown - these are the drivers for their line. They all possess other attractive qualities other than offence, yet they compare really well to Nylander on that front. That is why I don't necessarily 'hate' Nylander, but those 3 guys have definitely jumped way ahead of Nylander for me.

If the Flames pick Nylander, I know they will have another prospect with top-line potential who can be a secondary scoring threat on the top line, or hopefully a good tandem offensively with Bennett. I just think I can say the same thing about those other 3 just as well, but they will provide those lines with 'something else' in addition to pure offence. Not the end of the world if the Flames take Nylander - kid will score.

I just want the Flames to build a team.

I look at it this way. Remember the Flames in '04? They were a team. They had an identity, and they played well to that identity. Sutter eventually removed himself from the coaching position - when he had a firm pulse on both the team and the on-ice product. The more years removed, the less his trades 'fit'. At the end of Keenan's tenure, that Flames team - much more talented than the '04 Flames - was a mish-mash of different types of players. They no longer had an identity.

This is why I prefer the Flames to pass over Nylander. He is Baertschi to me in some ways (which is unfair to him - I really believe he will be a better player than Baertschi - much better in fact). But that 'type' of player. If he isn't driving offence, he isn't helping the team. He isn't going to create turnovers on the forecheck like Keller or Jost will. He isn't going to win board battles or offer superior puck protection like Brown would. Yet, it seems his offence is right around the same mark as those 3, give or take.