The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[Jiggy_12]

If anyone is going to sign Edwin to a huge deal, it should be the D-backs. Too bad for them there is no DH in the NL and their current 1B is fantastic.

Edwin Encarnacion is now batting .448 with 12 Runs, 9 HR & 17 RBI in 8 games at Chase Field with the Jays.

[zukes]

EE >>>> Bautista if they only sign one.

They damn well better sign one too. This crying poor was fine when nobody was going to the ball game, but that place is a freaking zoo! Every. Single. Game. this year.

There is no way the Dodgers aren't fluffing their attendance figures by the way. I watch them quite often and that place is always half empty.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And you can yell at the top of your lungs all you want that the Jays shouldn't have a budget - but in the end Rogers is going to do what is best for the bottom line.

They are a publically traded company with shareholders, meaning that they are going to want a strong ROI and margin on the Blue Jays as an investment.

Spending to the cap and trying to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, & Dodgers is not going to get them there.

Sucks as a fan of the team because it would be nice to see them spend to the top of the league, but in the end they aren't going to do that.

Are you trying to tell me that the Jays aren't getting a higher return on their investment when the team is consistently and selling out merchandise across the entire country and breaking tv ratings? Like hell they aren't, and to sustain that the team has to be willing to increase their payroll. On pure attendance loan, a spike in of 15,000 people per game with a modest average ticket price is an extra 65M along not counting the concessions and extra merchandise sales.

The problem at hand here is the Jays don't operate in isolation from their other sports ventures. The Jays are essentially currently funding all the NHL losses for the Rogers sports division.

Rogers will be the last corporation to ever own a MLB team, and that's a good thing because it simply doesn't work.

[Sylvanfan]

I suspect that Encarnacion would put up pretty gaudy numbers if he was with the Rockies too.

The fact that he's a bit more than two full years younger than Bautista is huge to me. Baseball sluggers still regularly produce to the age of 35. Past 35 is when you do tend to see a decline. But if you can sign Edwin for 4-5 years, I think he's worth the money.

The team has no internal options to replace his production, and I'm not sure the scratch and dent bin of bargain free agents can help get you enough offence to be any good.

If you lose him and Bautista....you might as well try and off Donaldson, Estrada, Martin and any other veterans you can get returns on to try and rebuild your offence with prospects.

It's funny though, I remember when the Rolen deal went down, and NOBODY wanted Encarnacion, he was thought to be complete garbage. Everyone was creaming themselves over rumors that Yonder Alonso was being included in the deal from the Reds. He was this great young shiny toy.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by zukes

EE >>>> Bautista if they only sign one.

They damn well better sign one too. This crying poor was fine when nobody was going to the ball game, but that place is a freaking zoo! Every. Single. Game. this year.

There is no way the Dodgers aren't fluffing their attendance figures by the way. I watch them quite often and that place is always half empty.

Yup. No problem with the money issue when park is empty and no interest is there, but as Jays fans have shown, if you give them a product worth watching, they will come to the game, buy the merchandise, drink the booze. Toronto/Canada baseball market isn't the problem, it's the owners.

I found the Dodgers attendance weird as well. Every time I see highlights it seems to be quite empty.

If they don't sign at least one of them, the city of Toronto is going to lose it's collective mind. Atkins and Shapiro will likely need full time security, which is unfortunate because they are just carrying out orders.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

If anyone is going to sign Edwin to a huge deal, it should be the D-backs. Too bad for them there is no DH in the NL and their current 1B is fantastic.

Edwin Encarnacion is now batting .448 with 12 Runs, 9 HR & 17 RBI in 8 games at Chase Field with the Jays.

Edwin also rakes in Boston. Would be interesting to see his career stats there.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I would wager Edwin is going to get a 5 year deal worth between 15M and 17.5M per year. Ortiz currently makes 16M which I think is the direct comparable.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Are you trying to tell me that the Jays aren't getting a higher return on their investment when the team is consistently and selling out merchandise across the entire country and breaking tv ratings? Like hell they aren't, and to sustain that the team has to be willing to increase their payroll. On pure attendance loan, a spike in of 15,000 people per game with a modest average ticket price is an extra 65M along not counting the concessions and extra merchandise sales.

The problem at hand here is the Jays don't operate in isolation from their other sports ventures. The Jays are essentially currently funding all the NHL losses for the Rogers sports division.

Rogers will be the last corporation to ever own a MLB team, and that's a good thing because it simply doesn't work.

Nope I'm saying that they will attempt to pocket the majority of that extra revenue, take an even larger return on investment, and then smile at shareholders when their share price goes up.

The Jays goal here is to build a competitive team, that can compete long term, with a payroll that probably falls somewhere between 10th and 15th in the major leagues.

Is that feasible to build a true contender? Probably not but that is what their corporate decision is going to be.

They will likely never go out and spend in the same range as the other big players. They will spend in that middle range around $150M and that is what they are going to budget.

It sucks as a fan & you don't have to be happy about it but IMO it's never going to change so expecting them to just up and spend $40M a year on players the wrong side of their peaks isn't going to happen.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

So? Every other team hands them out, why not the Blue Jays. If they don't, they'll never get over the hump. Money and term should not be an issue with the Jays. It's total BS. This team is averaging 40K a game and it isn't even the August run yet. The only teams with higher attendance are the Cardinals, Giants, and Dodgers (they fip flop for 4th with the Cubs).

I would bet the merchandise sales are astronomical. You don't go anywhere in this country without seeing a Blue Jays shirt or hat on every 10th person. Christ, you don't even go to the US anymore without seeing one. Look at the friggen road attendance for the Jays. Half of those stadiums would be empty if it wasn't for the Jays fans.

The fact that Jays fans have to sit their and rationalize why they aren't re-signing one of their stars is an absolute ####ing joke. This isn't a baseball decision, it's a Rogers decision. If the Jays wanted to resign Saunders, Bautista, and Edwin to huge contracts, they should have the resources to do so. Had they resigned Edwin in the off-season like they should have, they actually would have saved money because he's going to get even more term and money now that he's killing it once again.

Did any of you catch the piece on the Fan 960 on Monday? I couldn't believe they ran it on a sportsnet channel (must have been one of their purchased programs and not in house). They were saying that the Jays are currently in hot water with MLB. The reason being that MLB is claiming they are not reporting TV revenue properly with respect to the baseball team. Essentially, the Blue Jays cry poor while holding all their tv revenue (which is the biggest form for most MLB teams) and not giving the Jays any credit. Not sure why MLB cares, but apparently they do now. I've been looking fro this interview for a few days now to post here, but I can't find it anywhere on the Fan 960 site.

For the reason, Jays are a budget team, I understand they have higher revenues this year. I would guess their internal budget will still exist.

I suspect his new contract will be around 22m to 25m per season.

I would guess the Jays can really only afford to sign 1 of EE or Jose.

Not sure, the Jays will try to resign EE.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by flambers

For the reason, Jays are a budget team, I understand they have higher revenues this year. I would guess their internal budget will still exist.

I suspect his new contract will be around 22m to 25m per season.

I would guess the Jays can really only afford to sign 1 of EE or Jose.

Not sure, the Jays will try to resign EE.

There's no chance Edwin gets over 20M.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There's no chance Edwin gets over 20M.

Jay's shortstop makes 20m per season currently.

EE is the league leader in several categories.

Basically having a career season.

He is paid 10m per season currently...

This could be his last contract.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by flambers

Jay's shortstop makes 20m per season currently.

EE is the league leader in several categories.

Basically having a career season.

He is paid 10m per season currently...

This could be his last contract.

Edwin is a 33 (going on 34 year old) DH who is limited to signing with 15 teams and despite mashing like crazy, provides no other value in other areas.

Tulo plays one of the most important fielding positions in all of baseball and signed his ten year deal when he was 26 years old and widely regarded as one of the top players in all of baseball in most facets of the game.

Not sure why you are comparing the two.

If Edwin gets a 22-25M dollar contract, it's because he signed a one or two year deal, and even then I don't think he gets that high.

[flames_fan_down_under]

nm what AO said.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Edwin is a 33 (going on 34 year old) DH who is limited to signing with 15 teams and despite mashing like crazy, provides no other value in other areas.

Tulo plays one of the most important fielding positions in all of baseball and signed his ten year deal when he was 26 years old and widely regarded as one of the top players in all of baseball in most facets of the game.

Not sure why you are comparing the two.

If Edwin gets a 22-25M dollar contract, it's because he signed a one or two year deal, and even then I don't think he gets that high.

Just pointing out that Tulo came to the Jays with a 20m dollar contract, will EE want to be the highest paid position player?

I would bet his agent is fully aware the Red Sox will pay for the services of EE.

As Ortiz is retiring this year.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by flambers

Just pointing out that Tulo came to the Jays with a 20m dollar contract, will EE want to be the highest paid position player?

I would bet his agent is fully aware the Red Sox will pay for the services of EE.

As Ortiz is retiring this year.

Ortiz makes 16M a year on a one year contract and prior to that made 14.5 M a year on a two year contract. Ortiz is the gold standard for DHs, and you think Edwin is going to make between 6 milllion and 9 million a year more than him on a 5 year contract?

[TheAlpineOracle]

I also think the Blue Jays (Rogers) way of nickel and dimming most aspects of their baseball operations does a hell of a lot more harm than good. They save short term but they don't long term. You're going to have a hell of a hard time convincing a player to take a little hometown discount or a little less term, when you've spent years before that fighting with them and all their friends around them on compensation and other issues (of which there are many documented instances including last year's suit gate).

I think we are seeing that now with Edwin and Bautista. They clearly like Toronto, their teammates, and are on a winning team, but they don't seem to have any level of respect for upper management/ownership and see this as their chance for an FU right back at them. They are going out of their this year to lay the path down that they wanted to stay here but management wouldn't pay (especially Bautista). I don't think their stance would be as heavy handed as it is if they had any amount of respect for ownership.


I'm having a hard time thinking about any other time where a team had a couple of superstars producing at high rates who are publicly lobbying to stay with the team and you know there's a really good chance that isn't going to happen and they are just trying to get the blow back not on them.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Ortiz makes 16M a year on a one year contract and prior to that made 14.5 M a year on a two year contract. Ortiz is the gold standard for DHs, and you think Edwin is going to make between 6 milllion and 9 million a year more than him on a 5 year contract?

If EE is the RBI & HR leader at the end of the season, there will be teams interested in signing him.

A slugger with these type of numbers don't hit free agency very often.

If he signs for 15m/season, I would think the Jays will re-sign him.

If he goes UFA, I doubt he resigns for 15m. Considering he is 32, and has had a career season.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I also think the Blue Jays (Rogers) way of nickel and dimming most aspects of their baseball operations does a hell of a lot more harm than good. They save short term but they don't long term. You're going to have a hell of a hard time convincing a player to take a little hometown discount or a little less term, when you've spent years before that fighting with them and all their friends around them on compensation and other issues (of which there are many documented instances including last year's suit gate).

I think we are seeing that now with Edwin and Bautista. They clearly like Toronto, their teammates, and are on a winning team, but they don't seem to have any level of respect for upper management/ownership and see this as their chance for an FU right back at them. They are going out of their this year to lay the path down that they wanted to stay here but management wouldn't pay (especially Bautista). I don't think their stance would be as heavy handed as it is if they had any amount of respect for ownership.


I'm having a hard time thinking about any other time where a team had a couple of superstars producing at high rates who are publicly lobbying to stay with the team and you know there's a really good chance that isn't going to happen and they are just trying to get the blow back not on them.

Can you really describe Jose as publicly lobbying to stay when it was conditional on his VERY high money and term demands being met?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by flambers

If EE is the RBI & HR leader at the end of the season, there will be teams interested in signing him.

A slugger with these type of numbers don't hit free agency very often.

If he signs for 15m/season, I would think the Jays will re-sign him.

If he goes UFA, I doubt he resigns for 15m. Considering he is 32, and has had a career season.

I think he will be 18 mil a season.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Can you really describe Jose as publicly lobbying to stay when it was conditional on his VERY high money and term demands being met?

Yes I can. He has on multiple occasions expressed his desire to stay, and done so very publicly. (I personally hate Bautista and couldn't care if he stays or goes so long as they find and adequate replacement).

Bautista is very arrogant and emotional, and his "I'm getting paid X at market value and not taking a hometown discount" is exactly what I was saying. You can't nickle and dime guys and their friends for years, and expect them to have a cordial relationship when it's their turn to be the one with the stick. Bautista is just enough of an arrogant prick to openly say what other players are thinking.

Both him and Edwin are going out of their way to ensure the blame is placed on Rogers when they leave.