The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread - Page 221 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

JiriHrdina · 07-20-2016, 04:55 PM

Do we not assume that Sanchez goes to the pen at some point - solving part of the problem.
And isn't there a lefty in AAA right now that they need to make a decision on soon?
EDIT: Franklin Morales is the guy I'm thinking of

TheAlpineOracle · 07-20-2016, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

LOL. The bullpen hasn't been lights out, but its no longer the garbage it used to be. Since the All-star break (including today), they've given up 1 earned run in 5 games. Not exactly terrible work.

And yes, I know inherited runners are an issue, but that's them getting put in a bad spot from the starters.

They just gave up 3 ER in one inning today, by the guy that is supposed to take them to the promise land and according to Atkins "Cecil coming off the injury list is like making a big acquisition better than anything else they could add on the market".

They just played 5 games against two of the worst teams in baseball. Make no mistake about it, outside of Osuna, this bullpen is still bad. Grilli has been half decent but he's been pretty lucky to get out of bad situations he put himself in.

To compete for the division the Jays need a shut down bullpen of Osuna, Grilli, Biagini, LH, and another fireballer (preferably another LHP). Fortunately, bullpens are the easier to augment at the trade deadline than most positions.

They may get their fireballer in Sanchez, but even then they still need two LHPs assuming Cecil still sucks, and that creates an even bigger hole in the starting rotation.

JiriHrdina · 07-20-2016, 05:09 PM

I don't know how relevant today's performance is - when you are up by that big a margin, the job of the pen is to come in and throw strikes. It isn't like the game got close at all.

TheAlpineOracle · 07-20-2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Do we not assume that Sanchez goes to the pen at some point - solving part of the problem.
And isn't there a lefty in AAA right now that they need to make a decision on soon?
EDIT: Franklin Morales is the guy I'm thinking of

I think Sanchez will end up in the pen, but we still need two LHP. Currently we have Cecil who sucks. Morales is doing well in Buffalo, but i'd like a bit more sure thing than that going in on a pennant race.

mrkajz44 · 07-20-2016, 05:11 PM

Hmm - guess I wasn't listening to the 9th that closely. Didn't realize the 3 runs were scored there.

Still, I don't think the bullpen is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. They are 17th in the MLB in terms of ERA (9th in AL), so below average, but not exactly a dumpster fire. I am in the camp that reliever arms come and go pretty easily (remember Delebar anyone?) so there is no need to spend assets to try to get one more good reliever for a stretch run.

TheAlpineOracle · 07-20-2016, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Hmm - guess I wasn't listening to the 9th that closely. Didn't realize the 3 runs were scored there.

Still, I don't think the bullpen is as bad as everyone makes it out to be. They are 17th in the MLB in terms of ERA (9th in AL), so below average, but not exactly a dumpster fire. I am in the camp that reliever arms come and go pretty easily (remember Delebar anyone?) so there is no need to spend assets to try to get one more good reliever for a stretch run.

They've blown 20 games this year. They are as bad as advertised, and a dumpster fire. They've been better lately, but the Jays are jacking up 8 runs a game and there is less pressure and these guys are still under performing. Recent wins and offence are doing a good job at covering warts on the pen.

Do you want to go into a 3 games series with Boston or Baltimore with our pen the way it is now? Not a chance in my opinion. I don't have faith they can close out a 3 run lead against a light hitting opponent, let alone guys like this which we will be facing on the regular going forward.

GirlySports · 07-20-2016, 05:40 PM

eh it was garbage time, want to throw strike and get them to hit into outs. Get 3 outs even if you give up 5 runs is ok. Just don't start nibbling and wasting arms.

TheAlpineOracle · 07-20-2016, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

eh it was garbage time, want to throw strike and get them to hit into outs. Get 3 outs even if you give up 5 runs is ok. Just don't start nibbling and wasting arms.

That might be the case if the bullpen hadn't sucked at historical rate all year. Not correcting this bullpen would be a monumental mistake, even for Rogers standards. Even the sporstnet kool-aid writers are saying it has to be addressed. If the right thing was done in the offseason, the Jays would be running away with the division.

TheAlpineOracle · 07-20-2016, 05:48 PM

I wish we played in the National League. The AL is such a beast of a division. Even the teams in the basement are capable of winning any series. That's not the case in the NL.

If you actually sit back and think about it, how many playoffs appearances/division titles would the Jays have had if they had played anywhere but the AL East? It's completely nuts. You could also probably sprinkle in there an extra world series championship or two.

flames_fan_down_under · 07-20-2016, 06:03 PM

The NL West must be the easiest division in all of baseball. The Rockies, Padres and Diamondbacks all in one division. Sheesh no wonder the Giants have the best record in baseball. 5 of the 7 worst teams in the majors right now are in the NL. Never mind the AL east has four teams playing above .500 baseball.

GirlySports · 07-20-2016, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That might be the case if the bullpen hadn't sucked at historical rate all year. Not correcting this bullpen would be a monumental mistake, even for Rogers standards. Even the sporstnet kool-aid writers are saying it has to be addressed. If the right thing was done in the offseason, the Jays would be running away with the division.

Sure but thats not the time or place for the remedy. Bullpens can only works themselves out in high pressure situations.

flames_fan_down_under · 07-20-2016, 07:02 PM

I am with AlpineOracle on this one. The bullpen is easily the weakest part of this team and they don't have a capable lefty in the bullpen. This was an issue in the playoffs last year, remember when we had to go to David Price in the bullpen as our left handed relief? Having 21 losses as a bullpen staff is bad, there isn't really a way to sugar coat it.

Addressing it only makes the team better IMO.

flames_fan_down_under · 07-20-2016, 07:36 PM

Pomeranz only lasted 3 innings today. So that's great news!

TheAlpineOracle · 07-20-2016, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Pomeranz only lasted 3 innings today. So that's great news!

And the bastards are still winning.

Lil Pedro · 07-20-2016, 11:01 PM

At this point, I don't know how the Jays cannot re-sign EE. The guy is a run producing machine, one of the most efficient DH's in the game, and can also play relatively good 1B. Moreover, he has looked the most comfortable I have ever seen him at the plate without Bautista in the lineup (that from since the time Jose went on the DL till now). He's younger than Jose and knows how to DH regularly; if they were to keep Jose they might get one or two years with him at RF and then he would be filling the DH/1B role. If I'm Shapiro/Atkins, I am doing whatever I can to keep this guy in Toronto. You can't let him walk for nothing to head down south to Boston where he's gonna obliterate you 18 games a season. Hitters like this are few and far between

flambers · 07-21-2016, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

At this point, I don't know how the Jays cannot re-sign EE. The guy is a run producing machine, one of the most efficient DH's in the game, and can also play relatively good 1B. Moreover, he has looked the most comfortable I have ever seen him at the plate without Bautista in the lineup (that from since the time Jose went on the DL till now). He's younger than Jose and knows how to DH regularly; if they were to keep Jose they might get one or two years with him at RF and then he would be filling the DH/1B role. If I'm Shapiro/Atkins, I am doing whatever I can to keep this guy in Toronto. You can't let him walk for nothing to head down south to Boston where he's gonna obliterate you 18 games a season. Hitters like this are few and far between

Problem is his age, EE will want a massive contract with term.

Term aspect is a huge risk....

Really tough decision for the GM.

howard_the_duck · 07-21-2016, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Problem is his age, EE will want a massive contract with term.

Term aspect is a huge risk....

Really tough decision for the GM.

The thing is I see his term being max 5 years - I don't think any team in MLB would give Eddy longer than that.

And being that all he needs to worry about is hitting, I wouldn't hesitate in giving Eddy 4-5 years. If he's willing to stay, can't see why Shatkins won't at least table a competitive offer.

TheAlpineOracle · 07-21-2016, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Problem is his age, EE will want a massive contract with term.

Term aspect is a huge risk....

Really tough decision for the GM.

So? Every other team hands them out, why not the Blue Jays. If they don't, they'll never get over the hump. Money and term should not be an issue with the Jays. It's total BS. This team is averaging 40K a game and it isn't even the August run yet. The only teams with higher attendance are the Cardinals, Giants, and Dodgers (they fip flop for 4th with the Cubs).

I would bet the merchandise sales are astronomical. You don't go anywhere in this country without seeing a Blue Jays shirt or hat on every 10th person. Christ, you don't even go to the US anymore without seeing one. Look at the friggen road attendance for the Jays. Half of those stadiums would be empty if it wasn't for the Jays fans.

The fact that Jays fans have to sit their and rationalize why they aren't re-signing one of their stars is an absolute ####ing joke. This isn't a baseball decision, it's a Rogers decision. If the Jays wanted to resign Saunders, Bautista, and Edwin to huge contracts, they should have the resources to do so. Had they resigned Edwin in the off-season like they should have, they actually would have saved money because he's going to get even more term and money now that he's killing it once again.

Did any of you catch the piece on the Fan 960 on Monday? I couldn't believe they ran it on a sportsnet channel (must have been one of their purchased programs and not in house). They were saying that the Jays are currently in hot water with MLB. The reason being that MLB is claiming they are not reporting TV revenue properly with respect to the baseball team. Essentially, the Blue Jays cry poor while holding all their tv revenue (which is the biggest form for most MLB teams) and not giving the Jays any credit. Not sure why MLB cares, but apparently they do now. I've been looking fro this interview for a few days now to post here, but I can't find it anywhere on the Fan 960 site.

JiriHrdina · 07-21-2016, 11:25 AM

If the Jays are going to have a budget at all, then how they use it does matter - and overcommitting to older players that will decline at some point - is a mistake.
The Yankees, RedSox and Dodgers can do that. The Jays can't.
They have to make good baseball decisions, and signing either guy to deals with too long of a term or salary would be a mistake.

SuperMatt18 · 07-21-2016, 11:52 AM

And you can yell at the top of your lungs all you want that the Jays shouldn't have a budget - but in the end Rogers is going to do what is best for the bottom line.

They are a publically traded company with shareholders, meaning that they are going to want a strong ROI and margin on the Blue Jays as an investment.

Spending to the cap and trying to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, & Dodgers is not going to get them there.

Sucks as a fan of the team because it would be nice to see them spend to the top of the league, but in the end they aren't going to do that.