Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I just think it's too early to judge. So far, I've been pretty happy with their later round picks, with guys like Wotherspoon, Seiloff, Gilles, and Gaudreau. Jankowski is the big question mark that I think this scouting staff / management group will be heavily judged on, and rightfully so.

Jankowski should be considered as part of a package with the return in that trade, and I should hope that the higher picks this draft should be what management is heavily judged on, not any less than one high risk high reward choice mitigated by additional prospect Seiloff.

I will say that Jankowski did not really put up an overwhelmingly reassuring performance last year

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dammage79

This one one of the best prospect pools the Flames have had in a decade. There is a better chance at having more than one or two of our own prospects making the NHL in the next few years. More so over the shallow pool they have had prior to what? 07? Backlund, Brodie and Bouma are pretty much they only three the Flames have that were actually drafted by the Flames. Wotherspoon will for sure be an NHL'er. Seiloff has a good shot, Ramage as well. Offensively have there been as many Flames prospect to be excited about? Gaudreau, Sven, Reinhart are already showing promise. Then add a few exciting but risky picks like Janko, Granlund, Arnold. This is better than what we have had in years.

I agree that it looks "better than what we have had in years". Unfortunately this is what most prospect pools look like on other NHL clubs. Flames are far far behind most NHL prospect pools. They seem headed in the right direction, but our pool is so shallow that if one or 2 of the players mentioned end up missing, the flames are right back to where they started.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by T@T

Maybe the flames should just fire their scouting staff and take the words of the CSS,ISS and Craig Button People look at these lists like there gospel but who is Dan Marr(CSS) or Stu Siegel(ISS)? and in case you forgot Craig Button is the idiot who traded our first line center for a bag of dog and released Martin St. Louis.

I get the feeling you don't like the Jankowski pick but when you look deep into it they took what the organization needed, a big skilled smooth skating center, yeah he's got some growing to do but who would have you picked? I can't find anything close to a potental 1st line center where they could have picked and of course Sieloff looked great before he got hurt.

I'm indifferent with the Jankowski pick. He has a long way to go as he's a little different than most prospects in that he represents the first time a high school player has been picked in the first round. Could be genius or just another reach by a team. I don't love it and I don't hate it. I'm just waiting to see what happens with this kid.

Not sure how Craig Button came into ths and besides I'm sure he consults Todd for insight with his TSN evaluations. Considering Craig is high on Monahan I take that as a good sign that the Flames may also be.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I agree that it looks "better than what we have had in years". Unfortunately this is what most prospect pools look like on other NHL clubs. Flames are far far behind most NHL prospect pools. They seem headed in the right direction, but our pool is so shallow that if one or 2 of the players mentioned end up missing, the flames are right back to where they started.

This is why I think Feaster and company deserve the benefit of the doubt as of now. They're at the very least bringing the prospect pool back to some level of respectability. This draft only makes the pool better and they know it. They won;t flub the top pick they have. And will likely make some good picks with the other two. Or make a good trade with one of them. But I think they know it has to be a stellar trade in their favor to move one of the other picks. It's all i'm trying to say.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I just think it's too early to judge. So far, I've been pretty happy with their later round picks, with guys like Wotherspoon, Seiloff, Gilles, and Gaudreau. Jankowski is the big question mark that I think this scouting staff / management group will be heavily judged on, and rightfully so.

Wotherspoon, Sven, Granlund and Gaudreau were not Weisbrod picks, they were Button picks. That year Button did not seem to go off the board at all. Most picks were around where they should be.

Weisbrod came in after that draft, and changed the evaluation process. Last years draft is all we have to go off. I do remember that scouts were very surprised on what they had to look at for the new criteria. Its going to take a few years to find out if Weisbrod is a genius or not.

[_Q_]

I actually don't mind if Feaster/Wisebrod go off the board with the later picks and I do like the Jankowski pick as well, even if he doesn't pan out. Yes, that's right, even if he doesn't pan out, it's a good pick. The reason why I say that is the "safe" pick, Teravainen in this case, will likely become a 3rd line centre. How easy is it to pick up a decent, 3rd liner in his prime? Probably a 3rd round pick would get it done. So say, they miss out on the "can't miss" Teravainen and he becomes an every day NHLer on the 3rd or 4th line, is that really that much of a loss to this organization? On the other hand, Jankowski has the potential to become a 1st line centre, which is worth much more than a low 1st round pick. He can also bust, but it's not much of a loss, when the alternative would be to get a 3rd liner at best.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Weisbrod came in after that draft, and changed the evaluation process. Last years draft is all we have to go off. I do remember that scouts were very surprised on what they had to look at for the new criteria. Its going to take a few years to find out if Weisbrod is a genius or not.

Can you elaborate on that as I haven't heard that before. Not saying I don't believe you but it raises my curiosity.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I actually don't mind if Feaster/Wisebrod go off the board with the later picks and I do like the Jankowski pick as well, even if he doesn't pan out. Yes, that's right, even if he doesn't pan out, it's a good pick. The reason why I say that is the "safe" pick, Teravainen in this case, will likely become a 3rd line centre. How easy is it to pick up a decent, 3rd liner in his prime? Probably a 3rd round pick would get it done. So say, they miss out on the "can't miss" Teravainen and he becomes an every day NHLer on the 3rd or 4th line, is that really that much of a loss to this organization? On the other hand, Jankowski has the potential to become a 1st line centre, which is worth much more than a low 1st round pick. He can also bust, but it's not much of a loss, when the alternative would be to get a 3rd liner at best.

Teravainen projects as a top 6 player. Even if he does become a third line centre, is having a good one of those not more valuable than having nothing? Swinging for the fences can be a good thing, but Feaster has a history of swinging for the fence when the pitcher is throwing in the dirt. I'll take the guy that gets on base every time.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Teravainen projects as a top 6 player. Even if he does become a third line centre, is having a good one of those not more valuable than having nothing? Swinging for the fences can be a good thing, but Feaster has a history of swinging for the fence when the pitcher is throwing in the dirt. I'll take the guy that gets on base every time.

So you perferred Sutters Drafting philosophy over the current regime? It was filled with taking the Safe Pick.

I love the Jankowski pick. They picked the High potential guy over the more sure things (keeping in mind that the other "Sure Things" are at best 50/50 shots of playing in the NHL let alone meeting their potential)

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Considering Craig is high on Monahan I take that as a good sign that the Flames may also be.

Is there evidence of this, e.g. Flames draft choices being consistent with Craig's rankings? Thanks

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Myth #1 of the entry draft: There is consensus outside of the top few picks.

There is no consensus. The teams will have lists that drastically vary from each other. Weisbrod saying that some players went in the first round that the Flames didn't have ranked as high should be expected. It happens every year.

Some fans believe there is consensus of opinion in the draft but difference of opinion is actually the norm. I think some fans would be shocked to see how different teams lists are. Sometimes a player could go in the 1st or 2nd that another team didn't even put on their list.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by dammage79

This one one of the best prospect pools the Flames have had in a decade. There is a better chance at having more than one or two of our own prospects making the NHL in the next few years. More so over the shallow pool they have had prior to what? 07? Backlund, Brodie and Bouma are pretty much they only three the Flames have that were actually drafted by the Flames. Wotherspoon will for sure be an NHL'er. Seiloff has a good shot, Ramage as well. Offensively have there been as many Flames prospect to be excited about? Gaudreau, Sven, Reinhart are already showing promise. Then add a few exciting but risky picks like Janko, Granlund, Arnold. This is better than what we have had in years.

...yet it's still well below average relative to the rest of the league. comparing this group to previous years is irrelavant. what matters is how it compares to the rest of the nhl.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by saillias

Is there evidence of this, e.g. Flames draft choices being consistent with Craig's rankings? Thanks

He had Jankowski at 14 on his final list which is higher than any publication or mock draft that I saw. Coincidence maybe but he's been talking up Monahan so if the Flames take Monahan you could say there is some consitencies.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Myth #1 of the entry draft: There is consensus outside of the top few picks.

There is no consensus. The teams will have lists that drastically vary from each other. Weisbrod saying that some players went in the first round that the Flames didn't have ranked as high should be expected. It happens every year.

Some fans believe there is consensus of opinion in the draft but difference of opinion is actually the norm. I think some fans would be shocked to see how different teams lists are. Sometimes a player could go in the 1st or 2nd that another team didn't even put on their list.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I swear he said that there were guys picked in the first round that the Flames didn't have ranked period on their list not just the 1st round. If I am not wrong on what he said that's somewhat strange to not have consensus 1st round talent on your list anywhere.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by saillias

Is there evidence of this, e.g. Flames draft choices being consistent with Craig's rankings? Thanks

last year, he had Jankowski at 14 which is where the Flames were scheduled to pick. He had Sieloff at 42 which is exactly where he was picked by the Flames, and he also had Gillies quite high at 52. No evidence though, just a lot of speculation. I'd be surprised if the Button brothers didn't at least exchange their feelings regarding certain players over the course of the year.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Teravainen projects as a top 6 player. Even if he does become a third line centre, is having a good one of those not more valuable than having nothing? Swinging for the fences can be a good thing, but Feaster has a history of swinging for the fence when the pitcher is throwing in the dirt. I'll take the guy that gets on base every time.

So you are saying that you would take a sure fire guy who projects to be a Backlund, but could very well be a Comeau over a guy that could possibly be a Getzlaf or maybe nothing at all? To each their own I guess, but I take the latter 10 times out of 10.

Comeaus and even Backlunds can be had for fairly cheap via trade or free agency. No team, however, will ever be willing to trade a Getzlaf during his prime.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

...yet it's still well below average relative to the rest of the league.

I think it's probably in the average range relative to the rest of the league now. Not unequivically well below average anymore but clearly not in the upper tier just yet.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Can you elaborate on that as I haven't heard that before. Not saying I don't believe you but it raises my curiosity.

I either read it in the Sun/Herald or saw it on flames TV. It was an interview with Weisbrod and he said something to the effect that when he handed down the new criteria for drafting, some scouts raised their eyebrows. It was very different from past criteria's, but after he explained in detail why they were going this route, all scouts could see his vision and where behind him 100%.I believe he made a joke and said," he thought most of the scouts thought he was nuts at first until they were explained the whole vision".

[TheGrimm]

Flames management were pretty clear when they took Jankowski that he was going to be a long-term "project". I am happy to give him a couple of years before I write him off. It's not like we will be a contender in the next year or two..

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think it's probably in the average range relative to the rest of the league now. Not unequivically well below average anymore but clearly not in the upper tier just yet.

I'd anticipate that with our three first rounders this year, the Flames should be well within the top 15 prospect pools league wide. Unless they really go off the board. Really good draft to have three firsts.