Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Jordan!]

nm

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by stone hands

And people who don’t give 2 red cents about hockey, a luxury leisure pastime? What about them

Well they can go sit in their $300 million dollar Library that us hockey fans have to pay for but don’t give a flying ###### about.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by csnarpy

Well they can go sit in their $300 million dollar Library that us hockey fans have to pay for but don’t give a flying ###### about.

Don't compare a library to a private hockey arena, this has been debunked so many times.

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Don't compare a library to a private hockey arena, this has been debunked so many times.

Oh I know, just pointing out how dumb his argument really is.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by csnarpy

Well they can go sit in their $300 million dollar Library that us hockey fans have to pay for but don’t give a flying ###### about.

Paging this post is terrible

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Paging this post is terrible

And so are most of them in this thread. So sorry I forgot the green text, edited

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Same arguments over and over. There tends to be a few hundred thousand people watching games and - in an amazing coincidence - they almost all reside in southern Alberta. It's almost like fans tend to have a connection with the geographically local team.

If 'TV fans' don't care about the Flames, why do we have this board? why do we have countless threads having the same discussions? why is there so much angst towards KK and Bettman whenever the idea of moving the team is brought up?

If the Flames moved, these people would stop watching hockey? spare your classic anecdotes about you not doing so.

The NFL does just fine in Canada without having a team. MLB does just fine without outside of Toronto

It's not like the Flames don't get any benefit from TV viewers. Pretty sure Rogers pays the NHL a pretty penny for us to get this free lunch (TV dinner?) from the Flames!

The same arguments get trotted out by both sides over and over. Don't act like you aren't contributing to this clusterf#^$

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by csnarpy

And so are most of them in this thread. So sorry I forgot the green text, edited

It’s really sad a statement like that needs green text

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That is true, most aren't.

But we have to remember that the Flames (the team) and the arena are two different entities and two different businesses, even though they are intricately related.

And we also have to remember that only the very largest cities have the economics to make an entirely privately funded arena viable. Cities the size of Calgary can't, and thus choices have to be made.

1) not necessarily.

2) you have no evidence of this at all.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by stone hands

It’s really sad a statement like that needs green text

That is the funniest part about it!

It's an absurd argument, but one that has been argued several times in this thread.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by stone hands

It’s really sad a statement like that needs green text

Originally Posted by Cappy

That is the funniest part about it!

It's an absurd argument, but one that has been argued several times in this thread.

Yeah, that it needed green text is an indictment on a segment of CP that actually genuinely makes that comparison, not the poster who posted it sarcastically or anyone that didn't catch the sarcasm.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Why are people pretending like the options here are fully private or fully public?

To be fair, my post did start people down that tangent; in part because I was outlining how even with no public dollars, the Flames could build a new arena and make more money than they currently make. I'm not saying that is the only acceptable answer for me. I think the city's most recent offer was quite fair.

The bottom line for me is that with a new arena I will be priced out of Flames season tickets. To see that happen and see my tax bill go up significantly is not something I like.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Same arguments over and over. There tends to be a few hundred thousand people watching games and - in an amazing coincidence - they almost all reside in southern Alberta. It's almost like fans tend to have a connection with the geographically local team.



If 'TV fans' don't care about the Flames, why do we have this board? why do we have countless threads having the same discussions? why is there so much angst towards KK and Bettman whenever the idea of moving the team is brought up?

Maybe the could stop bringing it up?

If it keeps dragging on like this coupled with the comments from that ball of slime in New York, more people are likely to tell them to #### off and take the team with them.

[Jordan!]

Let me get this straight. You guys wouldn't pay a fee to have an NHL team in the City of Calgary?

I say fee because the rise in taxes for an arena would be likely less than what you pay on starbucks in a year.

I'm sure it'll be awesome to watch the Oilers in Edmonton while The Flames are in Houston.

It's a privileged to have a pro sports team in the city, not a right. I see MOST Calgarian's online want nothing to do with contributing in regards to taxes to make it happen, some prefer to see the team leave. WTF???

What the hell is going on up there?? Such a huge piece of pride and a true gift that the team exists there.

I'm awaiting, Coyotes, glendale blah blah blah.. I personally see the Coyotes gone barring a miracle so spare me.

I really don't understand it. So what if The Flames owners want a Katz deal? Guess what? HE GOT IT! and people in Edmonton seem pretty happy about it

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Let me get this straight. You guys wouldn't pay a fee to have an NHL team in the City of Calgary?

I say fee because the rise in taxes for an arena would be likely less than what you pay on starbucks in a year.

I'm sure it'll be awesome to watch the Oilers in Edmonton while The Flames are in Houston.

It's a privileged to have a pro sports team in the city, not a right. I see MOST Calgarian's online want nothing to do with contributing in regards to taxes to make it happen, some prefer to see the team leave. WTF???

What the hell is going on up there?? Such a huge piece of pride and a true gift that the team exists there.

I'm awaiting, Coyotes, glendale blah blah blah.. I personally see the Coyotes gone barring a miracle so spare me.

I really don't understand it. So what if The Flames owners want a Katz deal? Guess what? HE GOT IT! and people in Edmonton seem pretty happy about it

I'm stick of seeing billionaires hold city after city hostage with their sports teams, threatening to move if they don't get millions of dollars of free money for a new building that they will profit from. The Flames ownership and NHL itself have been extra disgusting with Calgary, going as far as trying to influence an election

If the Flames relocate I won't give a damn at this point, my interest in the NHL is at an all-time low. And even if I was still invested, it wouldn't make a difference where the Flames play to me. I can't afford to go to games anyways because it's so damn expensive, and would be even moreso in a new building

I hope Nenshi and the council sticks to thier guns and don't offer a penny more than they already have

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Let me get this straight. You guys wouldn't pay a fee to have an NHL team in the City of Calgary?

I say fee because the rise in taxes for an arena would be likely less than what you pay on starbucks in a year.

I'm sure it'll be awesome to watch the Oilers in Edmonton while The Flames are in Houston.

It's a privileged to have a pro sports team in the city, not a right. I see MOST Calgarian's online want nothing to do with contributing in regards to taxes to make it happen, some prefer to see the team leave. WTF???

What the hell is going on up there?? Such a huge piece of pride and a true gift that the team exists there.

I'm awaiting, Coyotes, glendale blah blah blah.. I personally see the Coyotes gone barring a miracle so spare me.

I really don't understand it. So what if The Flames owners want a Katz deal? Guess what? HE GOT IT! and people in Edmonton seem pretty happy about it

It's the principle of spending tax dollars to help a sports franchise make more money. As far as I know you had a wealthy/decent life here in Calgary and are a huge sports fan so your priorities are likely skewed.

No, the majority of citizens aren't worried about a sports team, they are worried about paying bills and want their taxes going to things like daycare programs and other things that help them get through life easier.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Let me get this straight. You guys wouldn't pay a fee to have an NHL team in the City of Calgary?

I say fee because the rise in taxes for an arena would be likely less than what you pay on starbucks in a year.

I'm sure it'll be awesome to watch the Oilers in Edmonton while The Flames are in Houston.

It's a privileged to have a pro sports team in the city, not a right. I see MOST Calgarian's online want nothing to do with contributing in regards to taxes to make it happen, some prefer to see the team leave. WTF???

What the hell is going on up there?? Such a huge piece of pride and a true gift that the team exists there.

I'm awaiting, Coyotes, glendale blah blah blah.. I personally see the Coyotes gone barring a miracle so spare me.

I really don't understand it. So what if The Flames owners want a Katz deal? Guess what? HE GOT IT! and people in Edmonton seem pretty happy about it

I'm sorry but that Edmonton deal is embarrassing for the city especially when that same owner goes and buys the single most expensive personal property acquisition in the history of the city of LA ~ total cost is basically 2 thirds of any arena deal in the league at this time. Good on the city of Calgary for sticking to their guns and trying to find common ground here so that there is a benefit for both the citizens and the team. To me, seeing 7 high multi millionaire and billionaire owners squabble over what amounts to a spit in a bucket for them honestly with regards to initial costs in order to have the general public 'pay for the dinner and the tip' is ridiculous and insulting; and to use pompous figure heads like Ken King and obnoxious media personalities like Francis to deliver this 'poor owners' jargon is getting old.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

I really don't understand it. So what if The Flames owners want a Katz deal? Guess what? HE GOT IT! and people in Edmonton seem pretty happy about it

"Edmonton is the clear example of this. I mean, clearly, so much of Edmonton's flagging, sad, little ego is tied up in their hockey success that they needed to sign a scam of a deal to give a sweetheart arena over to Daryl Katz. And now all of a sudden the expectation is that Calgary is going to fall in line?


I'm afraid we're not that pathetic. We're just not that pathetic, as a city."


-Jen Gerson.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

These examples are pathetic. But sure, let's pretend that we want to watch people eating in a restaurant on TV tonight. And let's pretend that the economics of a restaurant and an arena are the same.

If you don't want to have a local team, just say that. But these arguments (over and over and over) are ridiculous

TV users pay for watching the flames. Carriage fees and watching adds. TV watchers in Canada pay at least 500 million dollars for NHL. It's a fairly significant contribution relative to ticket prices. So to say that people who don't buy flames tickets don't support but recieve benefits is a Tier 2 argument.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Don't compare a library to a private hockey arena, this has been debunked so many times.

I'm a professional writer, and I guaran-damn-tee you that that library will be of no earthly use to me. Is it really $300 million worth of use to the rest of you?