Israel declares war on Hamas

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Ben Shapiro should not be posted as a definitive source of reliable information on any topic.

I'm not watching that because its over an hour long and Ben Shapiro is among the most punchable faces on Earth.

[FlamesAddiction]

Given what we have witnessed from Hamas, it's hard to believe that most of the hostages would be kept alive longer than the time it takes Hamas to gratify themselves by raping and torturing them.

[bluejays]

There seem to be numerous nuances as those who know a lot more than I do as described here, on this issue, but I think it comes down to a basic principle. Unprovoked attacks against civilians is wrong. The manner that was done as well is terrible. I don’t even know what is the right response by Israel, and that is debatable, but I can totally understand why they may respond in the worst way. Imagine women and kinds being slaughtered suddenly as random citizens. That’s terribly sad.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

It’s deliberate. Like the videos. All part of their ongoing campaign to inflict maximum psychological terror.

Hamas doesn't want a truce, they just want the headline. They'll say that all they want to peace while Israel doesn't relent. We have seen this story over and over. The minute Israel chills out, they'll get attacked again.

If this recent episode has shown us anything, it's that Israel needs to be even more pre-emptive to ensure their defense, at least as long as Hamas is in power.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Hamas doesn't want a truce, they just want the headline. They'll say that all they want to peace while Israel doesn't relent. We have seen this story over and over. The minute Israel chills out, they'll get attacked again.

If this recent episode has shown us anything, it's that Israel needs to be even more pre-emptive to ensure their defense, at least as long as Hamas is in power.

There is no Hamas in the West Bank, so why does Israel build settlements there?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by opendoor

None of that changes the reality. If a military encircles a region and prevents noncombatants from accessing food and water while also preventing them from leaving the area for a long enough period of time that they start dying en masse, it is a war crime.

What has happened to this point means essentially nothing. Obviously the Palestinians should have accepted Israel's right to existence and worked towards peace on that basis as much as possible. But that doesn't excuse war crimes if Israel ends up starving the population. Yes (as I mentioned), there is still the border with Egypt. But in the past Israel has enforced blockades there as well, so it's not a given that it's up to Egypt to allow food and water to get into Gaza.

In all likelihood it'll never get to that. I don't suspect the US will allow a long-term full blockade of Gaza if it's going to result in people starving, and Israel can't do anything major without the blessing of the US.


Also I have no idea why you're talking about WWII. The conventions and international laws were enacted after WWII because of the conduct during the World Wars. You might as well be saying using mustard gas is OK because they did in WWI.

Israel hasnt encircled Gaza, it has a border with Egypt, it isnt Israels problem if Hamas can't play nice with it's Muslim neighbours either.

All war is a crime, this is just a regular ordinary war, one side attacked the other and now the other side is going to try and smash them, that's all any war is, there is no law that states when you go to war with a country you have to feed them at the same time

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

There is no Hamas in the West Bank, so why does Israel build settlements there?

I doubt you want a nuance discussion here but it is because the West Bank is located in Judea and Samaria which is the birth place of the Jewish people. Hence why the settlements are religious communities.

I can’t tell if your question was actually serious, but if you didn’t actually know maybe read up on the subject before engaging in online arguments over it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

There is no Hamas in the West Bank, so why does Israel build settlements there?

mostly because one of the effects of the constant Arab attacks on Israel has been a radicalization of Israel, I had Israeli friends back in the 70's who were all but communists, none of these actions would have been thinkable back then but as it has been constantly attacked Israel has become brutal as well, Israel sees them selves in an existential war for their very survival with all of Islam, hard to see them as wrong today

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I doubt you want a nuance discussion here but it is because the West Bank is located in Judea and Samaria which is the birth place of the Jewish people. Hence why the settlements are religious communities.

I can’t tell if your question was actually serious, but if you didn’t actually know maybe read up on the subject before engaging in online arguments over it.

Ah, I see, so one side can justify taking land because of religion. Is this actually a serious response?

[TheIronMaiden]

All the nuance in the world won't make a difference. Blood will beget blood. The only people who will win are weapon manufacturers and construction companies.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Ah, I see, so one side can justify taking land because of religion. Is this actually a serious response?

I didn’t comment on it, I merely gave you the actual reason as to why there are settlements. You seem riled up, no point in discussing this with someone who is here to pick fights.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I doubt you want a nuance discussion here but it is because the West Bank is located in Judea and Samaria which is the birth place of the Jewish people. Hence why the settlements are religious communities.

I can’t tell if your question was actually serious, but if you didn’t actually know maybe read up on the subject before engaging in online arguments over it.

Canada is the homeland of indigeus peoples, should we give all their land back?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

All the nuance in the world won't make a difference. Blood will beget blood. The only people who will win are weapon manufacturers and construction companies.

well no, Israel will win, have no doubt about that, maybe that's the only solution, Israel just levels Gaza and forces all 2 million of them out, as horrific as that is it ends the issue

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Canada is the homeland of indigeus peoples, should we give all their land back?

morally of course, practically no

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I doubt you want a nuance discussion here but it is because the West Bank is located in Judea and Samaria which is the birth place of the Jewish people. Hence why the settlements are religious communities.

I can’t tell if your question was actually serious, but if you didn’t actually know maybe read up on the subject before engaging in online arguments over it.

Come on man. This is straight up extremism.

Justifying a system of apartheid and colonization because God told you so is no better than what Hamas is doing.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well no, Israel will win, have no doubt about that, maybe that's the only solution, Israel just levels Gaza and forces all 2 million of them out, as horrific as that is it ends the issue

The final solution.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Canada is the homeland of indigeus peoples, should we give all their land back?

Only to the tribes that took the land from other tribes through war and still exist I guess

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

mostly because one of the effects of the constant Arab attacks on Israel has been a radicalization of Israel, I had Israeli friends back in the 70's who were all but communists, none of these actions would have been thinkable back then but as it has been constantly attacked Israel has become brutal as well, Israel sees them selves in an existential war for their very survival with all of Islam, hard to see them as wrong today

Well you see, this kind of works both ways.

In the 60s and 70s palestinian society was fairly secular.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Ah, I see, so one side can justify taking land because of religion. Is this actually a serious response?

In reality, the settlements are mostly inhabited by religious fanatics. The majority of Israeli society is secular, and they tolerate the settlements, because the peace process has totally broken down. Israel, in their last offer, made an offer that would have given the Palestinians about 95% of the West Bank, with potential land swaps for the remaining territory. In response, the Palestinians voted in Hamas.

Since then, the Israelis population has been under the impression that they have to defend themselves unilaterally. If you look at the location of where the vast majority of the settlers live, it's either in the area surrounding Tel Aviv and Jerusalem or near the border with Jordan. Secular Israelis see these settlements as a buffer between the Palestinians and their major cities and as a means to monitor for potential attacks on their territory.

You can state that Hamas is a response to settlements, but the exact opposite is just as true. Israeli territorial expansion is a response to attacks against them and the constant threat of the militant groups. A similar attack, like the one we saw this week on isolated communities near the Gaza border, in the heart of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem would be another level of disaster. Israel will, therefore, strive to create as large of a buffer as possible.

Your expectation that Israel withdraw under threat from Hamas, just isn't realistic.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Only to the tribes that took the land from other tribes through war and still exist I guess

So you agree that archeological arguments for rightful land ownership are hypocritical?