[Rumour] LeBrun: All signs point to Hanifin not wanting to extend with Flames

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yeah if only Tre had said hey Murray that's stupid, then Murray would have said oh my mistake and all would be saved.

I guess Murray just said, "that's an order".

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I for one look forward to Conroy’s mic-dropping “don’t call it a rebuild” stage walk-off after trading all of Hanifin, Lindholm, and Toffoli this off-season for futures and young players, and then the Flames make the playoffs and Conroy gets whatever that dumb GM of the year award is.

Hard to win GM of the year after you got fired for not doing what your bosses tell you what the mandate is and you go rogue.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t think Edwards was an owner for the Iginla or Regehr trades.

He joined the ownership group in 1994.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I guess Murray just said, "that's an order".

Or the dynamics between Tree and his boss sit somewhere in the middle of the two extremes you’ve put forth as the possibilities

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The manner in which Carolina operates changed completely (for the better) as soon as they got new ownership (2021). Though to be fair, they had 12 picks in 2019. So it might be a Don Waddell thing (2018) as well.

Carolina is kinda crazy when you look at it. They missed the playoffs 9 straight years (and 11/12 since winning the cup) before making the Hamilton trade.

That trade was kinda like if we traded Monahan and Bennett coming off their ELCs for 3 years of a really good young player and some spare parts.

It feels like CAR has been relevant for more than 5 years (really only a contender 3 years). They've won 6 rounds in those 5 years and made the Conf Finals twice, but got swept both times.

[Jason14h]

Carolina is missing the superstar .

They are hard to get . And harder if your Carolina

[1qqaaz]

I think Jaccob Slavin is a top 6 or so defenseman in the league, which probably qualifies as being a superstar. It's just that he's very defensive, so he flies under the radar.

They don't really have a superstar on the front end, but it's still possible for Svechnikov, or even Aho, to turn into that.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by getbak

He joined the ownership group in 1994.

But until Harley Hotchkiss passed away he was in the background and had none of the influence and control he now wields.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Hard to win GM of the year after you got fired for not doing what your bosses tell you what the mandate is and you go rogue.

I don’t agree. Conroy could have sold a plan that includes the Flames not losing Lindholm/Hanifin/Toffoli for nothing and arming the franchise with assets that can help them land the next young star who wants out. He can argue that the best way to fill their loss is by having Huberdeau, Mangiapane, Markstrom all bounce back. He can possibly sell them on the fact that they have young guys pushing for spots that he can open up. He might have to go to free agency and try and plug some holes short term but won’t offer big money and term to anyone in this crop.


The Flames wont tank and the goal will be to make the playoffs but I think Conroy has sold them on a long term vision and not one that has them chips in for next year.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Or the dynamics between Tree and his boss sit somewhere in the middle of the two extremes you’ve put forth as the possibilities

So a possibility exists that Murray's involvement isn't as extreme as some think. Treliving gets all the credit for the good moves, and it seems Murray is taking the hit for all the bad ones.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

So a possibility exists that Murray's involvement isn't as extreme as some think. Treliving gets all the credit for the good moves, and it seems Murray is taking the hit for all the bad ones.

So you counter my point that you are taking too extreme and binary of view by offering up another extreme and binary view?

As many have pointed out, Tree was good at some things and bad at others. Generally he got good value in trades (Hamonic trade being an exception), was good at signing RFAs, and the organization's drafting was better under his tenure.

He had some bad coaching hires, horrible UFA signings and bled too many picks.

I see few people who don't recognize that he had strengths and weaknesses or that are "blaming Murray for all the bad ones" and giving "Tree credit for all the good moves". I think most people here have a more balanced view.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Carolina is missing the superstar .

They are hard to get . And harder if your Carolina

Had their chance...and probably would have been in the finals if they had put together a better package for Chucky last year. I see them as a sleeper on Helleybuck....and to be honest....that would make them scary...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

So a possibility exists that Murray's involvement isn't as extreme as some think. Treliving gets all the credit for the good moves, and it seems Murray is taking the hit for all the bad ones.

It’s widely reported that Edwards is a very hands-on owner. It’s not a reach that he sets the strategic direction of the franchise.

And he’s far from the only one in the NHL. Ron Hextall was brought in to revive the Pens. He wanted to do the obvious thing and trade at least one of the Big Three. But the new ownership group pulled the rug out from under him and said he had to extend them. The Pens missed the playoffs and he and Burke were fired.

People who own $900 million toys don’t like to be thwarted. A GM is just a hired hand who can be replaced any time. GMs are well aware of that power dynamic.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I think Jaccob Slavin is a top 6 or so defenseman in the league, which probably qualifies as being a superstar. It's just that he's very defensive, so he flies under the radar.

They don't really have a superstar on the front end, but it's still possible for Svechnikov, or even Aho, to turn into that.

The Hurricanes are such a well managed team. Not only do they have a highly competitive team, the also have all of their own draft picks for the next 3 years, expect for a 2023 3rd rounder, but they have added additional picks. They built the team that they have without having to mortgage any of their future so far. IMO, they also don't have any really bad contracts on their team. There are a couple at the higher end of market value, but nothing that I would say is terrible or an anchor. On top of that, they have a few real bargain contracts. They also have a lot of cap space, more than what they should considering how good of a team they have.

On top of that, they only have 4 players with trade clauses, and they are all modified, so they have a lot of flexibility to make moves.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Had their chance...and probably would have been in the finals if they had put together a better package for Chucky last year. I see them as a sleeper on Helleybuck....and to be honest....that would make them scary...

If they had a better package for Tkachuk. Man watch out they would be favorites year after year.

[liamenator]

I can't recall who made the point, but it's a good one: the mandate to 'just make the playoffs' may have had more to do with getting an arena deal than we realized.

By keeping the quality of the on-ice product high, fans remained engaged enough to keep the Dome full on most nights, which helped keep public and media sentiment in favour of a new building.

Now that a deal is in place, there may be more flexibility to let the on-ice results dip a bit

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Hurricanes are such a well managed team. Not only do they have a highly competitive team, the also have all of their own draft picks for the next 3 years, expect for a 2023 3rd rounder, but they have added additional picks. They built the team that they have without having to mortgage any of their future so far. IMO, they also don't have any really bad contracts on their team. There are a couple at the higher end of market value, but nothing that I would say is terrible or an anchor. On top of that, they have a few real bargain contracts. They also have a lot of cap space, more than what they should considering how good of a team they have.

On top of that, they only have 4 players with trade clauses, and they are all modified, so they have a lot of flexibility to make moves.

A small market team operating like a small market team, placing emphasis on drafting and development. If there’s a model for the flames, it’s this.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

A small market team operating like a small market team, placing emphasis on drafting and development. If there’s a model for the flames, it’s this.

100% agree. But it's easier to do in a market like Carolina than a Canadian market.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

100% agree. But it's easier to do in a market like Carolina than a Canadian market.

Why? I don’t get the argument that markets with more fan engagement can’t afford to be patient.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by liamenator

I can't recall who made the point, but it's a good one: the mandate to 'just make the playoffs' may have had more to do with getting an arena deal than we realized.

By keeping the quality of the on-ice product high, fans remained engaged enough to keep the Dome full on most nights, which helped keep public and media sentiment in favour of a new building.

Now that a deal is in place, there may be more flexibility to let the on-ice results dip a bit

I think there could also be a desire to have the team in a highly competitive spot when the rink opens. If that is 3-5 years away then it would make a ton of sense to move some guys this year for 2023 picks if possible so the team could have a few 21-23 year old players stepping in and making an impact when that new rink is ready