Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[timun]

Originally Posted by Envitro

And to top it off, does anyone really believe that the right and access to an abortion is under threat, in any way shape or form, in Canada?

How can this be a wedge issue still? No matter how many times a Conservative Party leader says that it's settled law and it's not getting re-opened, the Liberals use the crazies down south to yet again scare Canadians into voting for them.

It's a wedge issue because Conservative Party leaders blatantly lie when they say it's settled and they won't re-open it. Literally only 387 days ago a Conservative backbencher's bill on abortion was voted down. 81/111 Conservative MPs voted for it, while not a single MP from another party would dare. That's why it's still a wedge issue.

[MarchHare]

Also, House Democrats passed a bill that would have legalized abortion at the federal level literally a month ago. Surprise, surprise, the Republicans killed it in the Senate. This is absolutely not the fault of Democrats being "stupid or lazy".

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Social media - Any qualified person who is capable and willing to do the hard work to make the city/province/country better has to contend with making 4-10x less than what they could make in the private sector and given the high profile subject themselves and their families to idiots occasionally showing up on their driveways at their homes, accosting them and potentially family members in public, and all the like for their efforts. Pre-social media it was probably a lot harder to figure out where people live, family connections, and so forth.

At the end of the day we now have leaders and politicians in all parties who look at the compensation and the consequences of the high profile nature of the job and still want to sign up for that. The last people you want running the country/province/city are those who want to seek attention and/or think the compensation is good on a relative basis to what else they could be doing with their lives.

This has been an argument for a long time, and I'm not sure that I buy it anymore. There is a thought that being a lawyer, or a successful businessman, makes you 'qualified' for public service, but if anything time has proven this not to be true.

There is a constant demand to be shown credentials, but when it comes right down to it, most of the credentials that people offer hold little or no value for governance.

People will point at Trudeau, and say that the alternative of voting for a teacher is not any better, but he can be explained by simple nepotism.

Really, if all of the options were teachers, and lawyers and businessmen took a seat on the bus out of town, I think that we would all be better off. I couldn't see a drop in value occurring, and it would be a bump in pay for teachers. I could actually see real discussion in parliament instead of childish yelling.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by timun

It's a wedge issue because Conservative Party leaders blatantly lie when they say it's settled and they won't re-open it. Literally only 387 days ago a Conservative backbencher's bill on abortion was voted down. 81/111 Conservative MPs voted for it, while not a single MP from another party would dare. That's why it's still a wedge issue.

Also they said basically the exact same thing in the US. Half of these judges said during their nomination hearings that they wouldn't over turn Roe vs Wade. The entire 'nothing to see here' defense rings hollow.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by timun

It's a wedge issue because Conservative Party leaders blatantly lie when they say it's settled and they won't re-open it. Literally only 387 days ago a Conservative backbencher's bill on abortion was voted down. 81/111 Conservative MPs voted for it, while not a single MP from another party would dare. That's why it's still a wedge issue.

I'm not sure why Conservative voters seem to think anyone is going to buy the lie that it's all "Liberal propaganda!" based on "the crazies in the US!" while they actively support a party where the majority is trying to crack that debate wide open.

Their defense is basically "hey, don't worry, it'll never happen because the party I desperately want in power that also wants it to happen will never have enough power to make it happen." And they honestly think people care what the leader says? How've the last couple leaders fared? Lots of party support, huh? They've shown really great control of their party, yeah?

I don't know if these people think everyone else is stupid, but someone is either missing the writing on the wall or trying to cover it with a post-it hoping everyone else does.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by timun

It's a wedge issue because Conservative Party leaders blatantly lie when they say it's settled and they won't re-open it. Literally only 387 days ago a Conservative backbencher's bill on abortion was voted down. 81/111 Conservative MPs voted for it, while not a single MP from another party would dare. That's why it's still a wedge issue.

Liberals MPs have agreed to and are required to vote pro-choice in the house by their party.

[timun]

Liberal MPs wouldn't be Liberals in the first place if they were anti-abortion. That's what the Conservative Party is for.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by timun

Liberal MPs wouldn't be Liberals in the first place if they were anti-abortion. That's what the Conservative Party is for.

The Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada does periodic reviews of MPs and they believe that currently there are five Liberal MPs who are anti-choice including two members who have held pretty prominent positions within the house.

https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/wp-content/...Ps-current.pdf

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm not sure why Conservative voters seem to think anyone is going to buy the lie that it's all "Liberal propaganda!" based on "the crazies in the US!" while they actively support a party where the majority is trying to crack that debate wide open.

Their defense is basically "hey, don't worry, it'll never happen because the party I desperately want in power that also wants it to happen will never have enough power to make it happen." And they honestly think people care what the leader says? How've the last couple leaders fared? Lots of party support, huh? They've shown really great control of their party, yeah?

I don't know if these people think everyone else is stupid, but someone is either missing the writing on the wall or trying to cover it with a post-it hoping everyone else does.

What an unbelievable overstatement of facts here...

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Envitro

What an unbelievable overstatement of facts here...

Didn't something like 70% of their caucus vote to restrict abortion in an attempt to prevent sex-selective abortions?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

What an unbelievable overstatement of facts here...

It's kinda right there in the link Calgarygeologist posted.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Envitro

What an unbelievable overstatement of facts here...

Literally ignoring evidence presented.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Didn't something like 70% of their caucus vote to restrict abortion in an attempt to prevent sex-selective abortions?

Placing the rights of future women over the rights of current women.

It’s a bit of a red herring in that in terms of absolute numbers very few of these abortions occur. But let’s also not categorize this with access to abortion in general as the people getting sex selective abortions are people who want a child, and who believe this baby to be a child, but if it’s genitalia is not correct will murder it. In this case murder is the correct term to use because the person getting the abortion believes it to be a baby with a future if it’s male.

Now are a good portion of the 70% just anti-abortion zealots? Probably. Is this being used to drive a wedge? Absolutely.

[opendoor]

It's more that there's no plausible way to enforce a ban on sex-selective abortions while allowing them in other circumstances that doesn't just end up restricting access by introducing layers of bureaucracy. And I'm quite sure that the MPs voting for that motion understand that quite well.

[Azure]

Must be another Liberal scandal going on when there is more talk about those evil PCs restricting abortion.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's more that there's no plausible way to enforce a ban on sex-selective abortions while allowing them in other circumstances that doesn't just end up restricting access by introducing layers of bureaucracy. And I'm quite sure that the MPs voting for that motion understand that quite well.

Im not so sure on this. Just think how many laws we already have that have no plausible way of enforcement. The vast majority of COVID rules were a perfect example of rules / restrictions / bylaws / laws that were not practicably enforceable.

Most elected officials just want to seem like they are doing something, regardless of the actual outcome.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

Must be another Liberal scandal going on when there is more talk about those evil PCs restricting abortion.

Or Roe vs. wade just got overturned, a huge piece of news, which triggered conversation about what’s happening in Canada.

You guys are so desperate in trying to dismiss this stuff, why?

“Must be another liberal scandal”
“Liberals using those crazies down south”
“Oh it’s those evil PCs! lol”

Grow up if you can’t talk about this stuff honestly without the deflections. It’s embarrassing.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's kinda right there in the link Calgarygeologist posted.

If anything this just shows that conservatives in this country are not being represented. I know a lot of conservative people, and very few have this kind of attitude. I also wonder if this is a case of extremely undemocratic 'block voting', which is a travesty that I wish would go away.

[Azure]

Because I think Canadians have shown that there is little to no interest in changing the status quo. Sure, there are groups promoting that change, but there are also groups who want the dissolve the government and go live in the woods without any oversight.

Also, what is embarrassing is all the Liberal Party & Trudeau lovers who can't admit that the Trudeau government won't use every single possible incident that happens in the US, whether a Supreme Court decision or a mass shooting event to try and force through their dumb agenda.

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Fun times politically in our country. Everything is going to #### and the PCs who haven't been in power for 10 years are at fault. Surprised Harper isn't getting cited here.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

If anything this just shows that conservatives in this country are not being represented. I know a lot of conservative people, and very few have this kind of attitude. I also wonder if this is a case of extremely undemocratic 'block voting', which is a travesty that I wish would go away.

If they don't "have this kind of attitude" why do you consider them to be "conservative"? Do they vote for the Conservative Party? If they do... why would they expect anything different?