Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by SebC

Not when she's being kicked out for not being racist, homophobic, and anti-vax enough.

I wasn’t awarding the point because I thought their actions made the party look better

I’m just happy to see the CPC slowly but surely be exposed for what they’ve always been. Maybe I’m hopelessly optimistic but I figure the more stuff like this happens the more likely the canadians who have been bamboozled by their smoke and mirrors policies will finally snap out of it. IMO that’d be good for everyone.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Part of it is on us (voters) who continue to condone this type of behavior by reelecting these idiots. We need to collectively demand better. That sounds easier than it is however when it seem the alternatives are all equally as bad.

I agree that the voters are allowing our politicians to spiral downwards because they feel no accountability towards the electorate. Part of this largely revolves around team politics and that voters are not willing or able to call out their own party for shortfalls or wrong doings.

[Izzle]

With the USA overturning roe v Wade, this has given the liberals a massive wedge issue that they can bring up every elections.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Part of it is on us (voters) who continue to condone this type of behavior by reelecting these idiots. We need to collectively demand better. That sounds easier than it is however when it seem the alternatives are all equally as bad.

The Conservatives have a clear lane to drive right down to win majority governments but they can't stop themselves from playing nice with the loony bin of their support so people plug their nose and vote Liberal.

Doug Ford in Ontario is not great, but he booted all the covid crazies from his caucus. They went and formed their own parties that got next to no votes and he grew a majority and threatened the future of the Ontario Liberal party.

Its so obvious what needs to be done that its absurd they can't just do it.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The Conservatives have a clear lane to drive right down to win majority governments but they can't stop themselves from playing nice with the loony bin of their support so people plug their nose and vote Liberal.

Doug Ford in Ontario is not great, but he booted all the covid crazies from his caucus. They went and formed their own parties that got next to no votes and he grew a majority and threatened the future of the Ontario Liberal party.

Its so obvious what needs to be done that its absurd they can't just do it.

Doug Ford has surprisingly really set the bar for leadership and governance. He has had a pretty easy time against an awfully weak opposition in Ontario though but in terms of policy work and his caucus they are well ahead of any other province or federal party.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

see, it has only been two days and we are now past the fallout of using the bodies of 22 daed canadinas as political grease.

i read this somehwere years ago, and it really rings true these days - "It’s hard not to feel disappointed in your government when every day there is a new scandal."

Ironically a Justin Trudeau tweet, it hasn't aged well.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Part of it is on us (voters) who continue to condone this type of behavior by reelecting these idiots. We need to collectively demand better. That sounds easier than it is however when it seem the alternatives are all equally as bad.

On top of that, there's absolutely no interest by any political party to do anything but pay lip service to ethics in government and transparency.

Beyond the Voters who basically condone these behaviour, there's never been a serious push to look at the rules in place on corruption for example. On top of it, the governments have their hands on the lever of anything that's the least bit investigative. Don't like what a committee is digging into, either fillibuster the committee, of shut it down. Get caught stealing, or taking gifts, or breaking the ethics rule, well the fine is small enough to walk through and you won't be booted from your seat.

Don't like the PBO digging into lost funds or spending (IE Infrastructure Bank, or healthcare where 800 m tabbed for mental health programs have vanished). Cut the funds to the PBO to cripple it.

Our government is designed right now to literally wink at ethical violations, incompetence, dishonesty and lack of transparency.

If you want to lie or mislead to the Canadian people, or just plain avoid issues or answers. The best place to be is the House of Commons, its an acceptable practice.

Yes, we the voters are responsible for it. I don't think there's a fix because no party will want to fix the issues cause its likely they'll get snared in the fix.

[Northendzone]

unfortunately the reality is that this is about issue #62,329 and at the end of the day why would those in charge implement more rules to govern and punish themselves

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by KTrain

In general, it seems that if you stay in politics long enough you become a bad person. More concerned with staying in power and keeping your job, than doing good for the people you're representing. Doesn't matter the party you're involved with.

The idealistic, young politicians can go into it with the best of intentions but it seems that most fall into the power and don't want to give it and the paycheques up.

I'm sure there are outliers on both sides (people who can stay idealistic and those who never were and just wanted the power/fame/$$$) but they're few and far between.

We are entitled to our entitlements. Its a pretty strong draw to get people into politics. Work a couple of terms get a juicy pension. Its the one job where there's literally no KPI, all you need to do is have some charisma, and the ability to read out some well crafted points to get past the only accountability that there is which is your voters. Your track record doesn't matter. And that's the seductive nature of politics.

I'm voting for the Rhino's whenever the next election happens. I have this fantasy of a grass roots movement that creates a perfect political tornado where the Rhino Party wins a minority government.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

How do we get to the point where every single political party is this bad?

Social media - Any qualified person who is capable and willing to do the hard work to make the city/province/country better has to contend with making 4-10x less than what they could make in the private sector and given the high profile subject themselves and their families to idiots occasionally showing up on their driveways at their homes, accosting them and potentially family members in public, and all the like for their efforts. Pre-social media it was probably a lot harder to figure out where people live, family connections, and so forth.

At the end of the day we now have leaders and politicians in all parties who look at the compensation and the consequences of the high profile nature of the job and still want to sign up for that. The last people you want running the country/province/city are those who want to seek attention and/or think the compensation is good on a relative basis to what else they could be doing with their lives.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Social media - Any qualified person who is capable and willing to do the hard work to make the city/province/country better has to contend with making 4-10x less than what they could make in the private sector and given the high profile subject themselves and their families to idiots occasionally showing up on their driveways at their homes, accosting them and potentially family members in public, and all the like for their efforts. Pre-social media it was probably a lot harder to figure out where people live, family connections, and so forth.

At the end of the day we now have leaders and politicians in all parties who look at the compensation and the consequences of the high profile nature of the job and still want to sign up for that. The last people you want running the country/province/city are those who want to seek attention and/or think the compensation is good on a relative basis to what else they could be doing with their lives.

This plus *Hot Take*

Party funding changes which puts a greater importance on smaller donations from voters. Im sure it didnt take long to figure out that average people will donate money on wedge issues or hyperbole.

Look at what the Freedom Convoy received. Conservative politicians are salivating at that kind of cash.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We are entitled to our entitlements. Its a pretty strong draw to get people into politics. Work a couple of terms get a juicy pension. Its the one job where there's literally no KPI, all you need to do is have some charisma, and the ability to read out some well crafted points to get past the only accountability that there is which is your voters. Your track record doesn't matter. And that's the seductive nature of politics.

I'm voting for the Rhino's whenever the next election happens. I have this fantasy of a grass roots movement that creates a perfect political tornado where the Rhino Party wins a minority government.

This is something that I think could greatly improve government and legislation.

Any legislation that is tied to funding of any program, organization, office, ect.. should have KPI's as part of the legislation with consequences of not meeting said KPIs outlined. Obviously the set up of the KPI's can be politically driven but at least the public could then argue if the KPI is of value or BS.

Your department doesn't meet your KPI's without reasonable justification, YOU GET THE AXE.

It will never happen, but one can dream.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Izzle

With the USA overturning roe v Wade, this has given the liberals a massive wedge issue that they can bring up every elections.

Can we all be smarter than this? Wedge issues and boogeymen are the reason Row was overturned today. Dems had the opportunity under Obama to enshrine and didn’t. It was both a political wedge and not worth their capital. The whole “Hope” campaign sure looks like marketing fluff.

If Trudeau is serious and has a majority with NDP get to work, but guessing he wont because its just better to manipulate people endlessly.

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Can we all be smarter than this? Wedge issues and boogeymen are the reason Row was overturned today. Dems had the opportunity under Obama to enshrine and didn’t. It was both a political wedge and not worth their capital. The whole “Hope” campaign sure looks like marketing fluff.

If Trudeau is serious and has a majority with NDP get to work, but guessing he wont because its just better to manipulate people endlessly.

And to top it off, does anyone really believe that the right and access to an abortion is under threat, in any way shape or form, in Canada?

How can this be a wedge issue still? No matter how many times a Conservative Party leader says that it's settled law and it's not getting re-opened, the Liberals use the crazies down south to yet again scare Canadians into voting for them.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by Envitro

And to top it off, does anyone really believe that the right and access to an abortion is under threat, in any way shape or form, in Canada?

How can this be a wedge issue still? No matter how many times a Conservative Party leader says that it's settled law and it's not getting re-opened, the Liberals use the crazies down south to yet again scare Canadians into voting for them.

Not targeting you specifically, but it should be pointed out that access to publicly funded abortion services is unequal even across Canada. New Brunswick is infamous for restricting abortion in a public setting. There is only 1 facility I believe in NB that women can go to in NB but they would have to pay for the procedure out of pocket

LChoy

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

This is something that I think could greatly improve government and legislation.

Any legislation that is tied to funding of any program, organization, office, ect.. should have KPI's as part of the legislation with consequences of not meeting said KPIs outlined. Obviously the set up of the KPI's can be politically driven but at least the public could then argue if the KPI is of value or BS.

Your department doesn't meet your KPI's without reasonable justification, YOU GET THE AXE.

It will never happen, but one can dream.

I would like to see when a program is created of legislation that it has specific time lines and budgets attached, and yeah if your lagging, going massively over budget, then there's a mechanism for replacement beyond the pleasure of the Prime Minister.

Or if your department loses billions, like the Infrasture bank under McKenna, I mean frankly she should have been fired for that alone.

The latest on the tree planting program is once again not one tree was planted, but millions were spent on salaries. That Minister should be hauled in front of a committee with the idea of censor or termination.

Ethical violations in the house should be massive fines to the party, and instant termination of the MP responsible.

I also think that it should be put into place that when you pass through the doors of the house the first time that when you represent the government of Canada and you are under oath, and if you purjure or mislead then a house disciplinary committee can fine you or make you stand in the house and apologize on the public record and possibly be fired.

The access to information rules have to be reformed to, that's a whole nest of vipers right now and a complete gong show.

We can talk about these people being underpaid. But lets be honest when you look at the salaries of MP's and cabinet members and committee members, and combine it with the benefits and perks and expense accounts, they're really not. If they get into government strictly for pay and perks btw, then they're the wrong people for the job.

I also honestly think because of what we see from MP's that they should have to do an IQ test and be evaluated by a fricken psychologist before they're allowed to take their seat, because it feels like there are a lot of at least sociopaths and more so generally lazy and incompetent people in key roles of power, that work in government.

Part of this is obviously in jest. But the conduct of our governments no matter what the party in power, and the conduct of the individuals is kinda gross.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Envitro

How can this be a wedge issue still? No matter how many times a Conservative Party leader says that it's settled law and it's not getting re-opened, the Liberals use the crazies down south to yet again scare Canadians into voting for them.

Kavanaugh and Gorsuch said the same thing in their confirmation hearings (using similar weasel words to what most Conservative leaders have used), but overturned Roe v. Wade the first chance they could.

People might take the Conservative Party at their word if they didn't see them introducing legislation to restrict abortion and having to muzzle their caucus after after the Roe v. Wade decision was leaked. Clearly there is still a part of their base that doesn't see it as a 100% settled issue.

[Fuzz]

“When life is winning in America, it is only a matter of time before life will be winning here in Canada too. This win is a huge encouragement for pro-life Canadians to work even harder to bring legal protection to children in the womb from conception onward,” he said.

Josie Luetke, Youth Co-coordinator for Campaign Life Coalition, said that the U.S. court’s expected decision has already “reignited the abortion debate not only in Canada, but around the world.”

“The time for justice for pre-born babies has finally arrived, and this is a day we have long waited for.”

“The court has shone a massive spotlight on the lies surrounding abortion, shaking the abortion industry to its core. This is the beginning of the end of the genocide of the pre-born. It is a glorious and momentous day that will forever be remembered in history. The truth is marching on!”

https://www.campaignlifecoalition.com/press-room/id/257

This is what they are thinking in Canada. We can't afford to give these groups an inch. Every Conservative politician with an ounce of a brain should be denouncing the US situation in thew strongest possible way today, if they ever hope to form government. They won't because half of them are already on this team.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that Canada's population make up, beyond the Supreme Court of Canada means that Abortion laws in Canada are the third electric rail of politics where if you touch them you die.


The vast majority of Canadians are pro-choice. especially the heavy voting blocks in Toronto and Quebec. So frankly any party that lets say has a majority and tries to repeal abortion laws is smart enough to realize that in the next election, your going to be a fringe party. Its that simple.


However with the makeup of the senate, the law wouldn't be passed, and we don't have real strict constructionist judges in the Canadian Supreme Court, so any removal of abortion for example would be pretty much insta struck down.


America is honestly more split on pro-life vs pro-choice. And the states that are more heavily pro-life are pretty powerful.


Donald Trump stacked the court, and for some reason the Democrats were either stupid or lazy in responding to that in enshrining Abortion into the Constitution.


The mechanism's in the US supreme court is more able to change the living document that is their constitution. I don't think that there is the same mindset in the supreme court here.


To me, I doubt that abortion in Canada is ever going to be overturned, no matter what the party because its political suicide, and its not worth the effort to F around with it because the Canadian institutions would block that move.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Donald Trump stacked the court, and for some reason the Democrats were either stupid or lazy in responding to that in enshrining Abortion into the Constitution.

Are you aware how Constitutional amendments work? There is zero chance the Democrats would ever be able to get a two-thirds majority in both the House and the Senate plus get the State legislatures of 34 different states to pass a Constitutional amendment enshrining the right to abortion in the United States. Today's ruling is solely to be blamed on the conservatives who made this possible, be they Supreme Court justices, legislators, or anyone who voted for the Republican Party.