[GDT] Flames @ Abbotsford. 8pm MT. Calgaryflames.com

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

This club is in serious trouble, it has almost nothing in the pipeline and if it does not perform well this season I cannot see JG signing on for more rubbish. Possibly the worse outcome that could happen will be the club thinking its close to making the playoffs and keeping JG for the run and then not making it to the dance and JG then walking with the club getting nothing for him. Throw in the other star who is going to want his 9M and then will probably walk the next season.

Worse case scenario, yep you bet, but that's what happens to this club.

Nothing in the pipeline? 2 of the Flames top three prospects aren't playing. The third looked fine, but to young for the NHL yet.


This crop of 'graduating' players is disappointing. But the Flames have some quality younger players in their system.

[talladega.25]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Which prospects are garbage? Pelletier? Phillips?
Seems harsh, these are just scrimmages.

Nope its a tryout to make your dream job. Standout or get out imo

[Monahammer]

I for one was really hoping to see some translatable offense from Pelletier (biggest q mark for him) in these preseason games. So far he has looked really ineffective. That is not promising.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

This club is in serious trouble, it has almost nothing in the pipeline and if it does not perform well this season I cannot see JG signing on for more rubbish. Possibly the worse outcome that could happen will be the club thinking its close to making the playoffs and keeping JG for the run and then not making it to the dance and JG then walking with the club getting nothing for him. Throw in the other star who is going to want his 9M and then will probably walk the next season.

Worse case scenario, yep you bet, but that's what happens to this club.

So then they get dragged into a rebuild.
Works for me.

[Savvy27]

I'm a littlie disappointed in how the prospects have played but there are a few things worth keeping in mind too.

Mackey is a prospect that looks like he is in the mix to make the NHL. His waiver status works against him but his play looks pretty good.

Zary and Kinnvall are both injured and those are two guys who were well positioned to threaten for a spot.

Coronato is one of the top prospects and didn't attend camp.

I've liked the play of Duehr, Pospisil, and Gawdin as guys who can fill in on the 4th line. It's just that if there are injuries in the top 9 (like if Pitlick is out long term) then there is only Lucic who looks like they can fill in right now. I was hoping that Ruzicka and Phillips would be looking NHL ready and they haven't in my mind so far.

This hasn't been an exciting camp like when Dube or Valimaki or Jankowski were tearing it up, which is kind of a dull way to start the year. At least Vladar looks good.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So then they get dragged into a rebuild.
Works for me.

Well, except that it delays the start of the rebuild for another two seasons, which (a) misses two drafts with potential generational players; and (b) delays the fruits of any such rebuild for another two seasons, so long-suffering Flames fans will be waiting six or seven seasons (instead of four or five seasons) to enjoy any success.

The organization has put itself in a very difficult position.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I'm a littlie disappointed in how the prospects have played but there are a few things worth keeping in mind too.

Mackey is a prospect that looks like he is in the mix to make the NHL. His waiver status works against him but his play looks pretty good.

Zary and Kinnvall are both injured and those are two guys who were well positioned to threaten for a spot.

Coronato is one of the top prospects and didn't attend camp.

I've liked the play of Duehr, Pospisil, and Gawdin as guys who can fill in on the 4th line. It's just that if there are injuries in the top 9 (like if Pitlick is out long term) then there is only Lucic who looks like they can fill in right now. I was hoping that Ruzicka and Phillips would be looking NHL ready and they haven't in my mind so far.

This hasn't been an exciting camp like when Dube or Valimaki or Jankowski were tearing it up, which is kind of a dull way to start the year. At least Vladar looks good.

Yeah using two games as an indictment of the farm system is a stretch to begin with.

But doing so when 2 of the team's top 2 prospects aren't suited up is a real stretch.

I'd imagine 25 of 32 teams wouldn't have very deep systems if you took out the top two guys.

Honestly there is so much readily available to be gloomy about, not sure why some would reach for more things to wallow in.

But as an aside, I'm not all that high on the AHL bunch and haven't been. I don't see Ruzicka, Gawdin and Phillips as serious threats to be much more than tweeners. Happy to be wrong though!

[Canada 02]

there is no prospect in this organization who is not worth giving up to get Eichel. If Adams wants 6 of them, knock your socks off

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, except that it delays the start of the rebuild for another two seasons, which (a) misses two drafts with potential generational players; and (b) delays the fruits of any such rebuild for another two seasons, so long-suffering Flames fans will be waiting six or seven seasons (instead of four or five seasons) to enjoy any success.

The organization has put itself in a very difficult position.

If this season went poorly and Jonnny left or was traded, I would think they would be in the mix for a lotto pick for the 2023 draft, which I view as being even stronger, with two generational potential players at the top. However, there is an x-factor with Michkov seemingly committed to the KHL for a few years.

I guess I always see the silver lining. I don't really like the team right now so I'm interested and excited to see what happens in the next 2 years as they will need to make decisions on Johnny, Tkachuk and Monahan.

There isn't a single player on this team that I would be sad to see leave, except perhaps Elias.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If this season went poorly and Jonnny left or was traded, I would think they would be in the mix for a lotto pick for the 2023 draft, which I view as being even stronger, with two generational potential players at the top. However, there is an x-factor with Michkov seemingly committed to the KHL for a few years.

I guess I always see the silver lining. I don't really like the team right now so I'm interested and excited to see what happens in the next 2 years as they will need to make decisions on Johnny, Tkachuk and Monahan.

There isn't a single player on this team that I would be sad to see leave, except perhaps Elias.

When the puck drops I'll be hoping for wins, it's the whole point of watching the sport.

But yeah have to admit when you see the core and what needs to happen around here eventually anyway, a rough year this year would probably help make some tough decisions on players that may not be here going forward anyway.

[442scotty]

If Treliving was showcasing prospects to use as trade bait it’s blowing up in his face lol

[Macho0978]

I'm not saying Brad Treliving isn't to blame for the lack of prospects due to him consistently trading picks away but it wasn't long ago a lot of people on CP were saying:

1. Expose Backlund in the expansion draft and protect Phillips.

2. Why do we add Pitlick, Ritchie, Richardson, Lewis? Make room for the young guys!

3. 2 games into the pre-season. The young guys suck!

Brad needs to stop wasting picks but if you can get a good player for a mid pick not every mid/late pick we have is the next Mangiapane either. I'm disappointed that guys like Phillips and Ruzicka aren't pushing their way on to this team but it's only mildly disappointing because prospects like this are way more likely to never play 50 career games than they are and more likely are just 4th line caliber players.

Pelletier, Zary, Coronato, Wolf and Vladar were voted our top 5 prospects. Pelletier and Wolf are younger and Vladar has looked good. If he continues to push to make the team and hopefully get starts over Markstrom the positive impact from our prospect pool could still be significant even if Phillips and Ruzicka are busts.

I like what I have seen from Pospisil as well. He could be an impact call up this year.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, except that it delays the start of the rebuild for another two seasons, which (a) misses two drafts with potential generational players; and (b) delays the fruits of any such rebuild for another two seasons, so long-suffering Flames fans will be waiting six or seven seasons (instead of four or five seasons) to enjoy any success.

The organization has put itself in a very difficult position.

Meh, even if you blow up your team odds are still against for you for grabbing a generational player. Flames still have a lot of young-ish top talent and a good goalie so lots of value there.

Also rebuilds are no guarantee for success. Heck, even Edmonton was gifted what? 4 1st overall picks including the best player in the world and they can still barely make playoffs.

Even the Tampa rebuild didn’t really generate any success until they hit on a bunch of their “non rebuild” draft picks

Kucherov - 58th overall
Palat - 208th overall
Vasilevskiy - 19th overall
Point - 79th overall
Cirelli- 72nd overall

All drafted after they bottomed out. Obviously Hedman and Stamkos are big parts of that team, but point being starting a rebuild doesn’t guarantee success in 4-5 years

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I for one was really hoping to see some translatable offense from Pelletier (biggest q mark for him) in these preseason games. So far he has looked really ineffective. That is not promising.

He doesn't even have a professional game under his belt, but yes, let's be concerned about his future after two pre-season games in which the entire roster has been out of sync.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by bax

Meh, even if you blow up your team odds are still against for you for grabbing a generational player. Flames still have a lot of young-ish top talent and a good goalie so lots of value there.

Also rebuilds are no guarantee for success. Heck, even Edmonton was gifted what? 4 1st overall picks including the best player in the world and they can still barely make playoffs.

Even the Tampa rebuild didn’t really generate any success until they hit on a bunch of their “non rebuild” draft picks

Kucherov - 58th overall
Palat - 208th overall
Vasilevskiy - 19th overall
Point - 79th overall
Cirelli- 72nd overall

All drafted after they bottomed out. Obviously Hedman and Stamkos are big parts of that team, but point being starting a rebuild doesn’t guarantee success in 4-5 years

Agreed. Someone posted on CP that the top 3 picks from 2011 through 2021 have 0 Stanley cups. 2010 Seguin got 1 in 2011 but his role on team was limited and Boston got 2nd overall from Toronto’s pick not because they were rebuilding

You need to go back to 2009 draft before top picks have cups.

2012 lockout change things. You can’t lock up your stats with life time deals front loaded contracts so you can manipulate the players cap hit. 2nd contracts are out of control and rfas are getting paid. If the situation presents itself you go for top picks but blowing it up is nowhere as successful as it used to be. Retool is the way to go

[TheIronMaiden]

An undeniable positive is that Vladar looked good.
Love it or not, the Flames are going to depend heavily on Vladar and Markstrom.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So then they get dragged into a rebuild.
Works for me.

The best thing for this team may be a face plant to start the season with a need to sell at the trade deadline.



I'm not cheering for them to lose (and I think that they will make the playoffs this year and probably be a tough out). However, an asset management side of me thinks that losing badly to start will give them incentive to trade everything that isn't tied down.

[NegativeSpace]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bax
Meh, even if you blow up your team odds are still against for you for grabbing a generational player. Flames still have a lot of young-ish top talent and a good goalie so lots of value there.

Also rebuilds are no guarantee for success. Heck, even Edmonton was gifted what? 4 1st overall picks including the best player in the world and they can still barely make playoffs.

Even the Tampa rebuild didn’t really generate any success until they hit on a bunch of their “non rebuild” draft picks

Kucherov - 58th overall
Palat - 208th overall
Vasilevskiy - 19th overall
Point - 79th overall
Cirelli- 72nd overall

All drafted after they bottomed out. Obviously Hedman and Stamkos are big parts of that team, but point being starting a rebuild doesn’t guarantee success in 4-5 years

Macho0978: Agreed. Someone posted on CP that the top 3 picks from 2011 through 2021 have 0 Stanley cups. 2010 Seguin got 1 in 2011 but his role on team was limited and Boston got 2nd overall from Toronto’s pick not because they were rebuilding

You need to go back to 2009 draft before top picks have cups.

2012 lockout change things. You can’t lock up your stats with life time deals front loaded contracts so you can manipulate the players cap hit. 2nd contracts are out of control and rfas are getting paid. If the situation presents itself you go for top picks but blowing it up is nowhere as successful as it used to be. Retool is the way to go"



This doesn't get emphasized enough.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

The best thing for this team may be a face plant to start the season with a need to sell at the trade deadline.



I'm not cheering for them to lose (and I think that they will make the playoffs this year and probably be a tough out). However, an asset management side of me thinks that losing badly to start will give them incentive to trade everything that isn't tied down.

Cheer for wins
Be OK with losses

That's my mindset.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I'm not saying Brad Treliving isn't to blame for the lack of prospects due to him consistently trading picks away but it wasn't long ago a lot of people on CP were saying:

1. Expose Backlund in the expansion draft and protect Phillips.

2. Why do we add Pitlick, Ritchie, Richardson, Lewis? Make room for the young guys!

3. 2 games into the pre-season. The young guys suck!

Bolded: No one in their right mind was saying that. Some (few) who are hopelessly enamoured with Phillips might have thought of this, but it was never seriously put forth by anyone.

2. Pitlick is one thing, but I think it's valid criticism of Richardson, Lewis, and Ritchie. All of whom have looked bad in preseason too.

3. Again, I think a much more reasonable reflection is that none of our prospects have made any sort of case to make the team. That is disappointing as this is their opportunity. It is ok to be disappointed that these prospects are seemingly not fighting for their spots or if they are that they don't actually have the requisite talent to make it.