[PGT] Detroit 8 Calgary 2

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I thought it was pretty clear the linesman escorting him off saw it. He went straight to Tkachuk after it anyway. Can linesman still report only major penalties? Might this be why it was 5?

I dont know if thats better or worse. If he thought that was a major for slashing his judgement is horrific. I still dont think he actually saw it but he did see the two Flames players there and got between them and the Detroit players/bench, probably because of the chirping that was surely going on.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

I dont know if thats better or worse. If he thought that was a major for slashing his judgement is horrific. I still dont think he actually saw it but he did see the two Flames players there and got between them and the Detroit players/bench, probably because of the chirping that was surely going on.

Fair enough, and agreed it was a terrible call regardless.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by sa226

After watching it again, Witkowski is just a meat head who went crazy. I don't like the pounding on the ice of a defenseless Kulak, and then the challenging another guy right after is total bush league. But he's a meathead fringe player that is about to be suspended for 10. Witkowski was thrown off and the Flames were pissed, but they probably should have left well enough alone. Tkachuk's "spear" was not a spear, and the whole team was clearly pissed at the guy, but not a great idea to escalate.

However Mantha, a really good young player throwing rights into the face of Hamonic who is defenseless at the open door to the tunnel is deplorable. He will probably go unscathed, but there isn't much in the rule book for that, so he will likely get a hand slap at most. That pisses me off. You could even see the Detroit player grabbing at Mantha trying to get him off Hamonic.

It also wouldn't surprise me if Tkachuk, who's reputation precedes him get a decent hit of discipline, he didn't really do much but his reputation combined with being in the middle of the altercation will probably render him guilty of being the gasoline that stoked the fire. Or something stupid like that.

I actually don't seen an issue with the "escalation". Hockey is very much a sport where teams will bully other teams. If you don't push back after what Witkowski did, you end up on the receiving end of that. Witkowski's actions were totally over the top. Him rag dolling a defenceless player, after a fight is over just shouldn't happen.

The only regrettable thing about the incident is that it was Tkachuk who stepped up, who is more of a pest than true enforcer. This is one of the times when a true enforcer is valuable.

[BigFlameDog]

Man I feel old...that was in no way a “brawl”. I don’t long for the old days but even Sutter’s Flames would laugh at all the coverage of the amazing “line brawl”.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

I dont know if thats better or worse. If he thought that was a major for slashing his judgement is horrific. I still dont think he actually saw it but he did see the two Flames players there and got between them and the Detroit players/bench, probably because of the chirping that was surely going on.

Seems like 2 min unsportsmanlike and/or a misconduct would fit what Tkachuk did

[Bawbag]

Next time we play them just return the favour. Start feeding Mantha punches and beat him to the ice. That's how you deal with pos moves like that.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Seems like 2 min unsportsmanlike and/or a misconduct would fit what Tkachuk did

I think it was pretty clear that the refs were managing the game at that point. Sure they may have lost control at that point and their solution was to eject people and get the game over. From their perspective, Detroit was penalized more severely outside of this game based on their summary so I think they agree Detroit was very much responsible for what happened.

The Tkachuck penalty was simple game management so Calgary wouldn't have a chance to make it worse, because it was quite clear they were still pissed. If the game was closer or within reach I don't think they make the spearing call.

I hated the major to Tkachuk last night, but I get it. I would bet before they left the rink they already appealed 3 misconducts (Backlund, Brouwer, and Tkachuk). No point appealing the one on Hamonic as it will not be rescinded.

[Robbob]

I don't know it has been said, but if you are going to lose, this is the way you want it as each player is aware and pissed at the result. If result doesn't refocus and make you come out firing on Saturday nothing will.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I don't know it has been said, but if you are going to lose, this is the way you want it as each player is aware and pissed at the result. If result doesn't refocus and make you come out firing on Saturday nothing will.

Losing big periodically (Penguins suffered a similar beat down earlier in the season) is never a bad thing because it's a bit of a reality check for players and coaches. Sometimes when you lose close games you can fool yourself into thinking that you were good enough and didn't get the bounces when you were probably fortunate to be within reach of winning the game. I'm sure that the coaches are evaluating the penalty kill, defensive zone coverage, play away from the puck much more today than if they lost a 4-3 game and that's a good thing.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Here's Tkachuk destroying Witowski.



https://streamable.com/9rikl

You can also see Lazar, Brouwer and I think Backlund holding Monahan from jumping on the ice. He got one leg over the boards, but they stopped him going further.

Also cool to see Versteeg just blast down the bench to stop Ferland and the boys from immediately getting involved.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Flames shoulda jumped someone next shift. Looks like brouwer might have to reinvent himself as an enforcer.

[Toonage]

I'll say this, I'm pumped for the game on Saturday. If that isn't as fired up a Flames team that we've seen in the past few seasons then they'll never be fired up. Flyers are in for a beating. On the scoreboard.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think it was pretty clear that the refs were managing the game at that point. Sure they may have lost control at that point and their solution was to eject people and get the game over. From their perspective, Detroit was penalized more severely outside of this game based on their summary so I think they agree Detroit was very much responsible for what happened.

The Tkachuck penalty was simple game management so Calgary wouldn't have a chance to make it worse, because it was quite clear they were still pissed. If the game was closer or within reach I don't think they make the spearing call.

I hated the major to Tkachuk last night, but I get it. I would bet before they left the rink they already appealed 3 misconducts (Backlund, Brouwer, and Tkachuk). No point appealing the one on Hamonic as it will not be rescinded.

I agree with your point part of the way but if it was game management why did one team end up with a 5 min power play - should have been evened out and the rest of the game just played out Letting the team winning by 4 score a couple of more doesnt do much for keep things under control.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Burner

I agree with your point part of the way but if it was game management why did one team end up with a 5 min power play - should have been evened out and the rest of the game just played out Letting the team winning by 4 score a couple of more doesnt do much for keep things under control.

I think if Flames had a PP or if it was even strength there would have been more shenanigans. Giving Detroit the PP pretty much ensured the game would end more peacefully. As soon as it got back to even strength in the final minutes things started to heat up again.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

From the fact that the coach’s job is to give them the tools, not play the game for them.

You really think it’s the job of the coach to make sure players at the highest level are drinking water? Sorry, I don’t think so. These players know how to get up for a game of hockey. The job of the coach is to give them all the tools they might need and show them how to use it, not spoon feed them. A player not being able to get up for an NHL game is 100% on them.

Now you seem to be arguing points that no one has made. Obviously players are responsible for their own performance, preparation, and motivation as well. But you are coming up with scenarios to try to argue a point that isn’t being made.

The point is that a coach also has a responsibility to help prepare and motivate the team, and the individuals on it. Either you agree that a coach has the ability to have some effect on that, or you believe that they have no part of the motivation and preparation levels of the team. That is what is being debated.

[Barnet Flame]

Avoided the score all day.

I’ve just given up watching at 5-1.

Special teams and the Legend of Lack have just put the cherry on top of a ####ing great day.

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Avoided the score all day.

I’ve just given up watching at 5-1.

Special teams and the Legend of Lack have just put the cherry on top of a ####ing great day.

I'll suggest you keep watching...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Losing big periodically (Penguins suffered a similar beat down earlier in the season) is never a bad thing because it's a bit of a reality check for players and coaches. Sometimes when you lose close games you can fool yourself into thinking that you were good enough and didn't get the bounces when you were probably fortunate to be within reach of winning the game. I'm sure that the coaches are evaluating the penalty kill, defensive zone coverage, play away from the puck much more today than if they lost a 4-3 game and that's a good thing.

3 big beatdowns!

I agree with all that, plus the win over the Wings two games ago probably didn't help their overconfidence. This was as good a loss for teaching the guys as any, I guess. Hard to bag skate or drive home video after a win (but it was good enough to win, coach), or even a close loss (that last goal wasn't on me).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Not really. Aside from Brodie, Hamonic, and Lack who played like absolute s***, the rest of the team overall played a very solid game minus a couple mistakes.

We had 12 5v5 high danger scoring chances vs their 6 and out chanced them 30 to 19 overall 5v5. Brodie and Hamonic were on for 4 of their high danger scoring chances.

There was no reason the score should've been what it was

And this, right here, shows a major flaw in how analytics is used.

We gave up five special teams goals. Trying to argue how awesome we were five on five is great and all, but over 35% of that game was played by special teams. And we got the ever loving crap kicked out of us in those situations.

There was every reason that score should have ended up how it was.

[OminousFlames]

GG said that the team didn't come ready to play.. but I think differently. I felt at the beginning of the game that the Flames were playing well.. the game was back n forth. Having 12 shots against in 1 period isn't that bad of a period. However when 4 of them are goals, it's tough for any team to come back from that. That fifth goal was a real killer though. Lack just didn't make any great saves that could of turned the game around.