Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[GranteedEV]

To me, the Flames lack a single identity from top to bottom. When you mix the players up (naturally happens during a game) they struggle.

Half of them want to win playing an up-tempo game, threading the needle and creating havok. Our two best players like Gaudreau and Brodie thrive in skating the opponent out of the rink. Monahan, Giordano and Wideman also thrive in the added space of stretching the ice out due to their skill, hockey sense and their teammates covering for their for flaws. Even Bouma fit an up-tempo game better as he loves to counterpunch.

Meanwhile half of our players want to slow things down and play a less cerebral cycle game. Guys like Chiasson, Brouwer, Stajan, Hamilton, Jokipakka, Engelland. See a theme? These are mostly Burkeliving acquisitions.

On paper that is what Burkeliving consider a "balanced" roster that can play against anyone.

What I see though, is a team that cannot play a consistent style wiith each other.

A few of them (Backlund, Ferland, Kulak, Frolik, Bennett, Tkachuk, Giordano) are versatile enough to fit either style. But most of them want one style, or the other. Would Gaudreau work on the L.A. Kings or Anaheim Ducks? No, in fact I can't even imagine that because of how those teams want to play.

In 2014-15, when the Flames made the playoffs, albeit somewhat fluke-ily, the Flames had players who thrived in Hartley's style. Byron. Schlemko. Diaz. Russell. Jooris. Granlund. Glencross. Even Colborne despite common perception was much better st making decisions on the rush than he was playing against a set defense out of the cycle. Hudler was also versatile enough to fit that team's need. That team could not cycle, but they could play a game that didn't necessarily need a cycle against all but the best opponents, who did have our number.

Were Burkeliving wrong to want to get that team playing a cycle game? No, they were not. But they went about it wrong. They decided that adding raw size, and not anticipation, high-end skill, and compete level, were the key to becoming a team that could cycle. They removed pieces that worked well even in terms of the analytics that obviously still had to improve and replaced them over time with pieces that fit their aesthetic for a good team.

The problem? You can't fit a square peg in a round hole. Last year the raRangersngers, a speedy team, traded their speediest two-way forward away to the ducks, a heavy team. The result? The Rangers got worse and Carl Hagelin had the worst season of his career..... until he was traded again within a calendar year, for another guy having the worst season of his career David Perron. Suddenly Hagelin and Perron were having some of the best partial seasons of their career.

This was a no-brainer trade for both sides because these were never their teams' best players. Perry, Getzlaf, Crosby, Malkin, Kessel were.

What we see right now is not Gulutzan's fault entirely. Gaudreau, Brodie and company's struggles are a function of trying to play a style that suits whomever they are on the ice with. Which has been guys like Chiasson, Hamilton. Jokipakka, for Gaudreau, and Engelland, Stajan, Chiasson for Brodie. There is a lack of chemistry in the individual play styles and abilities. Brodie and Gaudreau are our two best players by talent, and! he team should be built to enhance their strengths. The Blackhawks are built around Keith, Toews, and Kane, three players who play a fast paced game. Their blue lines with Hjalmarsson, Campbell, Leddy, Oduya, Seabrook, even Rundblad over the years have always adhered to the need to have brisk first passes in stride because they know that Kane for example is not going to win a battle along the walls on a rim-out. The Kings, originally were built around their captain Dustin Brown, where their breakout would involve a rim-out to the big heavy winger, who would deflect the puck towards a centre or defenseman (Kopitar, Carter, Doughty) etreaking through the middle. They have evolved a bit since then but at their core they still play the same style.

Which style suits Brodie and Gaudreau? You can easily visualize Brodie saucing a 100 foot saucer to Johnny in stride with Monahan trailing the play. A style that doesn't necessarily work when it's Engelland and Bollig instead.

Gulutzan's style from what i can tell, attempts to play a middle ground with a guy for instance like Chiasson supposed to play that aformentioned Dustin Brown role with Gaudreau/Brodie playing the Kopitar/Doughty role. There's merit to it and with more time there will be some results. The Gaudreau-Bennett-Brouwer line showed some good signs the other day despite the score. Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik are versatile enough to play any style.

What we need though, is to commit to five man units that work with each other. And I think we need some trades for that, or to try some of the farm hands in important roles. It's not always about experience, but ability. Last year's Penguins had multiple rookies in the lineup - Sheary, Kuhnhackl, Rust, Dumoulin. They made trades for guys who guys who fit their best players better than they fit elsewhere (Hagelin, Daley, Schultz).

We have a rookie who is playing exceptionally for us in Brett Kulak. We need more of that, and less contrived "Alex Chiasson/Nicklas Grossmann" type nonsense. That is not on Gulutzan alone. Partially, yes, and partially it needs to be on Treliving to abandon the size obsession. Gaudreau will start playing his game when he starts playing with linemates who want to play his style of game within Gulutzan's system. The Johnny/Monny chemistry won't work the exact same way without Hartley's systems, but what is to say Johnny/Sammy/Poirier won't work? We as fans need to be patient still and let things pan out. However Treliving as GM should not be patient. It is clear certain players do not fit the roles they had envisioned on this team. Cut bait sooner than later.

TL;DR - Gulutzan's systems alone aren't a style of play. Players have to play with players who play a homogeneous style that fits the systems. The holistic approach needs work and that's still a work-in-progress as I see it. I am not saying I am happy with him but he is not the one who signed Grossmann to a one-way or brought in Chiasson to play with the first line.

[Enoch Root]

the mental gymnastics that you will put yourself through in order to maintain your narrative is amazing.

Hamilton, Brouwer and Jokipakka want to slow it down?

Wideman wants an up-tempo game?

You ignore Backlund, Frolik, Tkachuk and Ferland from that point because they don't support your argument.

There is nothing wrong with having different types of players and a well balanced team in order to be able to compete against teams of different styles. The fact that the Flames are currently struggling does not negate that fact.

[browntrout]

going to be a loss tonight...book it. Its going to be 2-3 years until this team makes the playoffs on a regular basis. The team is still very young and honestly still in the rebuilding stage

[FaFaFlamey]

I don't think Glen gets fired by Brad because then it all falls on Brad and his choice of coach(es). I think Brad waits this out and hopes the team turns things around because his butt must be on the line here if this continues.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The fact that the team is struggling so far under Gulutzan does not retroactively make Hartley a better coach.

Exactly. The way the team played under Hartley wasn't conducive to long term success. I feel they probably would have been better this year under Hartley with the two new goaltenders but that probably has more to do with the replacement coach looking pretty clueless to date. For a guy that was already an NHL head coach for two seasons prior to the Flames he sure looks green. I have no idea what he's doing with the defensemen this season and worse is that it looks like he has no idea. The fact that all the teams best players are playing with zero confidence also reeks of a coach that simply doesn't have a grasp of how to lead a team. It's imperative the Gulutzan starts getting his best players to start playing better or this season is going to be a major black eye for Treliving.

[Flash Walken]

Forget long term success under Hartley, how 'bout short term success.

3/4 seasons were terrible, one was lightning in a bottle.

In either case I think the roster both coaches have to work with is significantly overrated by some fans casting judgement.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

At least Eakins was a fairly hyped and sought after coach when the Oilers hired him and then he was exposed. He was at the time considered a big NHL HC prospect.

I don't think too many people were pounding on Gulutzan's door. And the sad thing is that when you read the Dallas postmortem after they fired him, their team was having the exact same issues as ours is now. This should have been completely predictable.

I feel bad because I am sure he is a great guy, but I don't see anything showing he should be an NHL HC. If it's true that they only gave him a 1-year "show me" deal, then I don't think they were sold either.



I agree. When you look at the time line from firing Hartley, who was available, then when they signed with other teams; it seems obvious that they didn't get their guy and then had to sort through the NHL laundry hamper full of sock puppets.

Wait what? This is the first I've heard of this, Glen Gulutzan is only here on a one year deal?

[taco.vidal]

Gully is dud. I said it after 4 games and it has become painfully obvious he is a dud of a coach. Eakins 2.0. He is going to stunt the growth and development of the young players if he isnt let go.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Wait what? This is the first I've heard of this, Glen Gulutzan is only here on a one year deal?

I didn't know this either - but CapFriendly does in fact report it as a 1 year contract, and they do appear to have other coach contracts correct. That's a neat little bit o' info.

Link

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Forget long term success under Hartley, how 'bout short term success.

3/4 seasons were terrible, one was lightning in a bottle.

In either case I think the roster both coaches have to work with is significantly overrated by some fans casting judgement.

I've been saying this for a while. This team isn't that good. The top 3 defensemen are all of the same type which is offensive skating not of the physical shutdown variety and the forward group is lacking scoring talent on the wings. It's an average group of players that has been playing below average hockey for two straight seasons now.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I didn't know this either - but CapFriendly does in fact report it as a 1 year contract.

Link

What the actual ####. Why on earth would they hire someone they didn't believe was worth a multi year deal?

If I'm a player, I would give this guy two weeks to win me over before I decided I'd rather dog it for three months than come to work for the next five years to be led by Glen goddamn Gulutzan.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I didn't know this either - but CapFriendly does in fact report it as a 1 year contract, and they do appear to have other coach contracts correct. That's a neat little bit o' info.

Link

I don't understand why he would sign a one year deal as he's effectively coaching for his job. It's kind of unheard of for a new head coach to leave a job to head coach only on a one year deal. If the season continues to play out like this there's zero chance he's going to get renewed. If true I suppose I will give Treliving props for getting a coach to sign on for only one season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Coaches salaries are all over the map - Dave Hakstol has the same contract as Alain Vingeault. Babcock makes$6.25, where Barry Trotz only pulls in $1.5. Dan Bylsma and Darryl make $3.

The Red Wings are paying Jeff Blashill $800k to coach.

Flames compensation for Gulutzan is not disclosed. But knowing they only signed him for a year leads me to conclude he's also come really cheap.

They can probably fire him whenever they want.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't understand why he would sign a one year deal as he's effectively coaching for his job. It's kind of unheard of for a new head coach to leave a job to head coach only on a one year deal. If the season continues to play out like this there's zero chance he's going to get renewed.

It gave him the chance to be a head coach, while not tying the organization to an unproven talent behind the bench. I think it makes sense for Gully and for the Flames.

Good contract work by Treliving.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It gave him the chance to be a head coach, while not tying the organization to an unproven talent behind the bench. I think it makes sense for Gully and for the Flames.

Good contract work by Treliving.

If there wasn't a candidate available the Flames felt they could make a multi year commitment to, they shouldn't have fired Bob Hartley.

If there was, and Treliving lost out on him, that's on Brad and Brad alone. There's no scenario where Glen Gulutzan on a 1-year deal is what you plan for.

[OldDutch]

He'll get the season that is for sure. There just isn't someone better right now. Best to hope he can turn it around, but if he can't I bet they wait for some firings to get the right guy in.

Jury is still out for me. Some games they play the way we want them too, then the next one the lay an dud. I in no way want Hartley back. He is finished in the league as a head coach, he had a plan that has been figured out, and not much else.

Hope the Blackhawks so badly bomb they fire their coach? one can dream...LOL

[midniteowl]

Does anybody knows how long is his assistants signed for?

[Mister Yamoto]

One year for Gulutzan is fine. How long should Treliving have handcuffed himself to this guy?

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

He'll get the season that is for sure.

Perhaps if a really good coach gets skidded mid-season we would have first crack at him. Gullet is expendable with a one year deal. Treliving you evil genius!

[kukkudo]

Only coaches I see available after this season.

John Tortorella Miss Playoffs
Lindy Ruff If Dallas misses or gets bounced out first two rounds
Darryl Sutter If they miss the playoffs
Michel Therrien Miss playoffs
Peter Laviolette Miss Playoffs
Alain Vigneault Miss Playoffs
Willie Desjardins Miss Playoffs
Paul Maurice Miss Playoffs
Ken Hitchcock Now I know he says he's retiring but you never know!