Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It was. But I don't think you give up assets for shots in the dark. I think if there was a guy out there that they felt could help, and was acquirable, they would have done it.

Absolutely this. Brad is a very calculated, well planned out GM. Him not aggressively upgrading our goaltending mid season was not a failure or lack of desire to upgrade the goaltending.

It was him tirelessly focusing on it and making the calls behind the scenes without us seeing and then deciding that for now and the future no deal was to be made in his plans to become a contender with what was available and at what price.

I have a feeling posters that are all over Brad for goaltending last season would be equally condemning him had he paid a pick or roster player for a stop gap that may or may not have been better than what we had.

[Mr.Coffee]

Fact is the Flames are better off now than they would have been giving up way more assets to get a middling to questionable goalie mid-season so that we had a slightly better shot at getting eliminated round 1 vs. not making playoffs.

So I'll call it a win and making the right call by picking up a legit starting goalie tandem that the Flames can ride confidently with and giving up much, much less because you're making that transition in the offseason.

The debate about Calgary acquiring a goalie mid-season is ridiculous. You think St.Louis is giving up Elliott in December? No.

Now we have a goalie that if the team gets hot, can ride into a deep playoff drive (in theory).

[Strange Brew]

I pretty much agree. Flames were not that upset about missing the playoffs and so let the situation play out.

Chances are trading a 4th rounder for a backup would have accomplished nothing. And then sometimes you get lucky.

If Elliott and Johnson crap the bed this year, I think we would see a different response.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I'm somehow doubtful that Dustin freaking Tokarski would've been worth the extra 6 or so wins (as long as those were Ls turning into Ws) we would've needed for the playoffs. I'm thinking that people wouldn't like him either when they realized he wasn't a measurable upgrade over Karri Ramo.

[Vinny01]

Treliving played out last offseason and regular season perfectly IMO. The team had unexpected success in 2015 and the next summer he wanted to show the fans that management believes in the team and moving forward so he acquired a 22 year old Dman with huge upside coming off a 40+OT season. He also signs a 27 year old forward to a 5 year deal.

Like many predicted the Flames crashed back down to earth and stumbled hard in 2016. As the deadline approached he successfully shopped his best 2 UFA assets and got back picks and prospects. Going into this summer the Flames were fortunate to snag a great prospect with their first pick, trade one of their 3 2nds for their biggest need and spend their UFA money adding missing pieces in a forward with size and a backup.

Let's see how this year goes but I am excited for a new look Flames team under Gulutzan with the new players we acquired and growth from our youth

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Flames goaltending was horrible. Bad system or not. I believe about any NHL goalie would have been an upgrade or at least would have been worth trying if goal was to make the playoffs. Pretty clear the guys we had weren't going to get it done wasn't it?

I hate pulling the minor hockey card, but man it's hard to coach a good system when players don't trust their goaltending. With the trust gone the mentality changes from limiting scoring chances, to limiting shots period, which means running around and doing other people's jobs.

Bring in a guy that can stop everything he sees and suddenly the focus is back on the system, staying in your role, and letting the stopper do his job.

[VladtheImpaler]

Hate to bring up Russell again in this thread , but Pinder and Boomer were talking about it again this morning and Pinder said that he has a "source" that tells him there is a deal that is done and waiting on "bad money" to be moved out and that it's apparently the Flames. FWIW.

[Ashasx]

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[heep223]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

So to have SO many defensive lapses, odd man rushes. It really was just poor team defense for much of the season. Especially at the start of the season, holy #### there were so many bad mental mistakes, out of position plays. Poor support from the offence.

I'm not so sure.

Pretty much right through the season, the Flames had the same amount of dangerous scoring chances allowed as the previous season when they made the playoffs. But twice the amount of goals on those chances. To me that points the finger directly at the goaltenders.

There were times when team D was poor for sure but I think that last season was actually one of those rare cases that the goaltending pretty much single handedly cost them a shot at playoffs.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

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That was my thought too.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I get ticked off watching clips like that.



It was so obvious even from even November last year that the goalies were not getting it done. I do not know why there wasn't more movement to bring in a goalie instead of wasting the year.

Probably because of cost and supply.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And why would you think a tweener or backup that was available would be an upgrade?

In fairness, the answer to that is self-evident. It would have been difficult to come across someone worse than Hiller.

That said, we were buried by mid-November. There was no value in overpaying mid-season for no real benefit.

[Vinny01]

Just listened to the new Haynes podcast. They speculate the Russell return and think it is possible but the flames need to move some salary

[JiriHrdina]

I don't mind him coming back if the price and term are ok. I think he's good in the room, and isn't as bad as people make him out to be.
$ though is key.
Again would rather have him than Wideman.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't mind him coming back if the price and term are ok. I think he's good in the room, and isn't as bad as people make him out to be.
$ though is key.
Again would rather have him than Wideman.

Lets assume you can't move Wideman (not sure that's true), do you move Engellend? Engellend and eat some salary? Or is it someone like Bollig? Stajan?

Part of me is leery as I don't want to upset the apple cart on what I think would be a solid top four.

Giordano - Brodie
Jokkipakka - Hamilton

is so interesting to me.

could they demote the old 2nd pairing to a third pairing and go with Russell/Wideman again?

Russell Hamilton didn't seem to be a feasible pair.

[JiriHrdina]

That's the rub yeah. I don't know that you can move Wideman, otherwise I assume they would have by now.
And I don't know that they want to move Engellend or Stajan because it seems like they are counted on as leaders in the room.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lets assume you can't move Wideman (not sure that's true), do you move Engellend? Engellend and eat some salary? Or is it someone like Bollig? Stajan?

Part of me is leery as I don't want to upset the apple cart on what I think would be a solid top four.

Giordano - Brodie
Jokkipakka - Hamilton

is so interesting to me.

could they demote the old 2nd pairing to a third pairing and go with Russell/Wideman again?

Russell Hamilton didn't seem to be a feasible pair.

Only problem is that would be the most expensive third pairing in the NHL. But I guess if you can fit it all under your cap, that's not a huge deal.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Only problem is that would be the most expensive third pairing in the NHL. But I guess if you can fit it all under your cap, that's not a huge deal.

I think that would be okay for one year. Where it becomes an issue is if you are paying your 3rd pairing that much over multiple years.

I would love to see Russell at a contract similar to what Engelland (3 yr, 2.9AAV). As it has been mentioned the price is what is key.

[Flames_F.T.W]

People freaking out about Russell need to relax until all the details are in. I'm not a huge Russell fan, but if he's brought back at a reasonable deal and to anchor the third pairing, I think it's a good move. He's a fantastic skater, moves the puck well and can play up in a pinch... and apparently he's an amazing locker room guy.

If he's brought back to play top 4 and be paid as such, then by all means freak out. So lets see how it all shakes out before we lose our collective minds

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lets assume you can't move Wideman (not sure that's true), do you move Engellend? Engellend and eat some salary? Or is it someone like Bollig? Stajan?

Part of me is leery as I don't want to upset the apple cart on what I think would be a solid top four.

Giordano - Brodie
Jokkipakka - Hamilton

is so interesting to me.

could they demote the old 2nd pairing to a third pairing and go with Russell/Wideman again?

Russell Hamilton didn't seem to be a feasible pair.

Engellend actually fills a need for toughness on the team playing in the pacific where the Kings, Ducks, and now the Oilers have pretty heavy forwards groups. I am also far from convinced that Jokipakka is a top 4 Dman. Perhaps he is but hopefully of Russell is brought back it is on a short term deal that won't break the bank if he is on the third pair