YLYL Thread and other things...

[Shnabdabber]

Yaaaaaaaaay squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

This thread is now 22 pages long. I haven't read much past the first few posts.

I want to say I love the CP community. I feel at home here and am a VERY proud member.

That said I've met a grand total of one poster. Just one.

There is a great community bond here, yet I find it weird when posters talk about how they know each other in real life. It's not a bad thing, I just find it odd because of my isolation.

That said, I like how the moderator team was open and honest with their decision, why they made the decision and the other issues that arose out of it.

In terms of additional moderators, I think it's a great idea to have the team more inclusive. Have more perspective and a better gauge on what's going on (not saying the current gauge is bad).

I'm not asking to be a member of the moderator team, but will gladly help out whenever and wherever possible. Just ask and I'll do whatever I can.

I owe a lot to this site for the countless hours of entertainment, debate and information I've got from here. I'll give back if I can.

That's said I'll miss the thread as I liked the fact there were hot chicks who were SFW. I find a sexy SFW picture is far better than a slutty nude picture. That said I couldn't care less if there were SFW guy pics in the thread either. But the moderator team felt that the benefits of the deletion outweighed the costs (I don't necessarily disagree) and I respect that.

Cheers guys

[Iceman57]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So, in your opinion, what was the intention?

My personal achievement was three fold with some of these points already being mentioned by me in previous post.

Naively enough, i sometimes viewed posting pictures in the thread as a competition. I honestly wanted to try and see if i could "win" by posting the most agreeable picture of the female form ever although i really can't claim to have done this with absolutely every single one of my posts but the majority for sure. Next would be to find a type of picture not commonly seen by the majority among the interweb. An almost personal image, one could possible describe as gorgeous art of the female species. For me these photos took time to find and not wanting to name individuals here but there was one content provider that in my opinion excelled at this notion. This was also the part to me where the sharing aspect was most prevalent, it was gratifying to have spent the time shifting through the common to find the spectacular and post it for others to view. Last and maybe what ill catch the most flack for, was to me it was a collection seen by others of beautiful women while never viewing it as anything distasteful. Just so it isnt surmised I'll provide full disclosure, I've never been big into porn, back in the day i didn't own a stack of mags or stock my closet full of VHS tapes. im in fact happily married and i love my mother.

[Regulator75]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

This thread is now 22 pages long.

Nope 8.

[Eastern Girl]

I don't know what's left to say. I'm not sure I have much left in me to say truthfully. I feel very strongly about this topic and my opinion has not swayed. I maintain that this board can be a very unwelcoming place for women. I think the way I have been treated (by some, not all) in this thread and others serves as an example of how unwelcoming this site can be for women.

I posted my thoughts, after being asked for them, and I took a beating for it. I've been called whiny, loud, self righteous, childish, hypocritical, too sensitive/PC, and was part of the squeaky wheel club. And why? Because I asked people to think before they speak. Some took what I thought was a simple request, and turned it on its ear talking about extreme "what if" scenarios. It hurts to see an argument that I thought was made sincerely and thoughtfully belittled and rejected as imagined sexism.

It's especially unfair, in my opinion, because all we did was ask for some consideration and respect. I didn't ask for a complete crackdown on anything remotely directed at a female. I am honestly shocked at the reaction. I didn't think this would be such a controversial situation. I am a very laid back person, but some of what I have read in this thread truly breaks my heart. I have a little baby niece and I weep thinking about what she is going to have to face in her lifetime.

I thought we had a decent discussion going on at times, but it's been derailed with discussion and focus on my avatar. So in the interest of moving forward, I will take down my avatar. I am doing this so we can move on with the discussion and we can hopefully come to some understanding of what can be done to better the site. I am also hoping that others will follow suit and reconsider their avatars.

Since this post seems to be creeping into martyrdom territory, I will wrap this up by saying that I really do feel strongly about this topic. I've experienced sexism and discrimination on a near daily basis, so it is difficult to not respond to some posts with anything but anger. If my anger got the better of me as a result, I apologize. If you think I've been childish, please don't let that paint our whole argument as simple angry ramblings that are without merit.

[ae118]

Well said, EG.

[Dion]

You have my greatest respect EG!

The same applies to the female members of this forum who posted thier views.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

I don't know what's left to say. I'm not sure I have much left in me to say truthfully. I feel very strongly about this topic and my opinion has not swayed. I maintain that this board can be a very unwelcoming place for women. I think the way I have been treated (by some, not all) in this thread and others serves as an example of how unwelcoming this site can be for women.

I posted my thoughts, after being asked for them, and I took a beating for it. I've been called whiny, loud, self righteous, childish, hypocritical, too sensitive/PC, and was part of the squeaky wheel club. And why? Because I asked people to think before they speak. Some took what I thought was a simple request, and turned it on its ear talking about extreme "what if" scenarios. It hurts to see an argument that I thought was made sincerely and thoughtfully belittled and rejected as imagined sexism.

It's especially unfair, in my opinion, because all we did was ask for some consideration and respect. I didn't ask for a complete crackdown on anything remotely directed at a female. I am honestly shocked at the reaction. I didn't think this would be such a controversial situation. I am a very laid back person, but some of what I have read in this thread truly breaks my heart. I have a little baby niece and I weep thinking about what she is going to have to face in her lifetime.

I thought we had a decent discussion going on at times, but it's been derailed with discussion and focus on my avatar. So in the interest of moving forward, I will take down my avatar. I am doing this so we can move on with the discussion and we can hopefully come to some understanding of what can be done to better the site. I am also hoping that others will follow suit and reconsider their avatars.

Since this post seems to be creeping into martyrdom territory, I will wrap this up by saying that I really do feel strongly about this topic. I've experienced sexism and discrimination on a near daily basis, so it is difficult to not respond to some posts with anything but anger. If my anger got the better of me as a result, I apologize. If you think I've been childish, please don't let that paint our whole argument as simple angry ramblings that are without merit.

This post sums up so much about my thoughts on the topic.

Sexism and misogyny are a big part of every day life for many women. We are bombarded daily with both overt and subtle implications that we're not as smart as men, we're not as strong as men, we're not as important as men, we're merely here to sell products and give men something to enjoy looking at.

It's infuriating to consistently have your thoughts, feelings, talents, and skills belittled and ignored because of your gender. (Not talking about CP here--talking about the world in general) Because you were born with XX chromosomes rather than XY chromosomes, you're made to feel inferior. So yes, we get angry. Yes, we might get a little overly incensed in a discussion about sexism/misogyny/feminism. Because these issues are part of daily life, we cannot escape them.

We didn't demand that the YLYL thread be deleted--we weren't even the ones who brought up the conversation, a moderator was the one to ask the question in the first place--because the moderators as well were questioning the thread. The thread itself was rather inconsequential--as both myself and EG and several others have pointed out. The tone of that thread and a lot of other comments made are the issue. It was not our decision to close the thread--we merely asked, all along, for a little respect and thoughtfulness before people spoke.

All of this hyperbole talk of censorship or slippery slope or "squeaky wheel" is infuriating. It was a T&A thread on a hockey message board, whether it stayed or left was no real concern to me, it didn't affect my life that dramatically one way or the other. But to see the reaction to its deletion is utterly insane to me. An RIP thread is necessary? Really? Again--it's a simple T&A thread, on the internet, which is full of millions of images of T&A. There are a million other places to look at girly pictures. CP is an interesting, diverse community that generally is full of very good people and wonderful conversation. For those who want the YLYL thread--it's easy to find other sites with girly pictures. Hell, just go to a Victoria's Secret website. Or watch ads for beer on Youtube. There are images of sexy, beautiful women all over magazines and billboards. Images similar to what were in the YLYL thread are on every newsstand in the US and Canada. Those images are really, really easy to come by.

For those of us who prefer a community with less overt sexism and misogyny, it's much harder to find a community as solid as CP elsewhere. So just think a little bit before you speak. Think about how you'd feel if someone said that thing to/about your sister, wife, daughter, mother. "Political correctness" isn't some terrible thing--political correctness just means attempting to not be an insensitive jackass.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Dion

You have my greatest respect EG!

The same applies to the female members of this forum who posted thier views.

Ditto.

[Ex libris]

EG, I really appreciate all you've said in this thread, and for standing up for your views...my views are pretty much the same, and you've stated them far better than I can

Also, I just have to say that it's frustrating to be called whiners and squeaky wheels...we were asked a question by a mod, and gave our input. That's it. No whining, as far I can see.

[Peanut]

I hope my new avatar doesn't embarrass Sliver at work.

And, overall, I find the discussion exhausting and I ran out of thanks for EG and witty and all the posters who are a bit more... Shall we say... Enlightened on feminist issues and viewpoints. Even the fact that the women giving their opinions are being painted with the whiny hysteria brush is an example of more subtle sexism. But I digress...

To address the "hypocrisy" of my avatar only, in case anyone actually cares, prior to the YLYL discussion thread starting, my avatar was the same for the last 4.5 years. A picture of my baby. I only changed it to be a speedo close-up and subsequent bare-man-ass-in-an-apron as a bit of a protest. Sorry if that was lost on some of you.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I hope my new avatar doesn't embarrass Sliver at work.

And, overall, I find the discussion exhausting and I ran out of thanks for EG and witty and all the posters who are a bit more... Shall we say... Enlightened on feminist issues and viewpoints. Even the fact that the women giving their opinions are being painted with the whiny hysteria brush is an example of more subtle sexism. But I digress...

To address the "hypocrisy" of my avatar only, in case anyone actually cares, prior to the YLYL discussion thread starting, my avatar was the same for the last 4.5 years. A picture of my baby. I only changed it to be a speedo close-up and subsequent bare-man-ass-in-an-apron as a bit of a protest. Sorry if that was lost on some of you.

Precisely.

We make impassioned, well-presented and eloquent arguments in favor of feminism, but we're just whining, just the "squeaky wheel."

The other side gloats about the results of the YLYL poll, they create a melodramatic RIP thread, they panic about censorship! and slippery slope! and but are we going to ban everyone for every single thing that offends anyone at all! hyperbole, but that isn't whining at all! Because men!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I hope my new avatar doesn't embarrass Sliver at work.

And, overall, I find the discussion exhausting and I ran out of thanks for EG and witty and all the posters who are a bit more... Shall we say... Enlightened on feminist issues and viewpoints. Even the fact that the women giving their opinions are being painted with the whiny hysteria brush is an example of more subtle sexism. But I digress...

To address the "hypocrisy" of my avatar only, in case anyone actually cares, prior to the YLYL discussion thread starting, my avatar was the same for the last 4.5 years. A picture of my baby. I only changed it to be a speedo close-up and subsequent bare-man-ass-in-an-apron as a bit of a protest. Sorry if that was lost on some of you.

As a matter of fact, yes I am happier with your new avatar versus the close up of a bulging penis wrapped in spandex. Even with your explanation, I don't understand the point of such a tactless avatar, tbh. But that's moot now anyway since you changed it, so thank you.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

For those of us who prefer a community with less overt sexism and misogyny, it's much harder to find a community as solid as CP elsewhere. So just think a little bit before you speak. Think about how you'd feel if someone said that thing to/about your sister, wife, daughter, mother. "Political correctness" isn't some terrible thing--political correctness just means attempting to not be an insensitive jackass.

This is one of the things that I don't understand from the people giving EG and others a hard time. Can you not put yourself in someone else's mind set and imagine what it would be like to have someone be a dick to you for no other reason that you're there and you're not 100% like them.

Diversity in approach and perspective is what makes this place interesting. Brow beating people for being inherently different does not enrich this community.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

I have a little baby niece and I weep thinking about what she is going to have to face in her lifetime.

OMG that is completely over the top. Your neice lives in one of the best countries in the best time in the history of humanity to be female and things are only getting better by the year. The past week on CalgaryPuck is evidence of how promising the future is for gender equality. The mods made a great decision and are going to pull the less enlightened of us along with them into a more inclusive future.

My wife and I regularly talk about how lucky our daughter is to grow up here and now versus any other place or time in history. I marvel at how other cultures today and ours in past times could look at their daughters as inferior to their sons. I truly cannot wrap my head around that as I have a son and a daughter.

I do find your tone strange on this topic. 'Weeping' for your neice seems dramatic and disingenuous to me. I'm optimistic for the futures of little girls in Canada right now; I think some of them may never even know sexism and they certainly won't experience it to the same level as every other woman that came before them had to experience it.

I haven't been following your posts or this topic until the last page and unfortunately I don't have time to go through everything. I only made the comment about your avatar because I genuinely found hard to take you seriously talking about this issue with a half naked man as the photo you chose to be your visual representation for us, coupled with your location being 'sc'ank'. Thank you for changing your avatar.

[Tinordi]

Forcing female posters to change their avatars in retaliation to closing a sexist thread just reinforces the sexism pervasive on this board.

Sickening. Some posters literally have no capacity for reflection.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Forcing female posters to change their avatars in retaliation to closing a sexist thread just reinforces the sexism pervasive on this board.

Sickening. Some posters literally have no capacity for reflection.

Apparently, the standard for pervasive sexism is that there's no double standard.

I do believe you have the capacity for reflection. I suggest that this is a good time for it.

[Wastedyouth]

#heforshe

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Forcing female posters to change their avatars in retaliation to closing a sexist thread just reinforces the sexism pervasive on this board.

Sickening. Some posters literally have no capacity for reflection.

Is that really retaliation? The mods said that closing the YLYL thread was just the first step in battling sexism and inappropriate content on the board. Even most of the people who had a problem with that thread said the bigger issue was objectification popping up at other unexpected places around the forums. Wouldn't getting rid of borderline NSFW avatars be the next logical step (and really, it probably should have been the first step)? As I said earlier in this thread, Papi and Shawnaki (and I'm sure some other guys that I'm forgetting) should change theirs too. To say that we shouldn't have bare asses popping up in otherwise family-friendly threads isn't retaliation - it's progress.

Edit: For the record, I think that closing the YLYL thread was the right decision, but that in no way suggests that getting rid of sexual avatars would be the wrong decision.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Forcing female posters to change their avatars in retaliation to closing a sexist thread just reinforces the sexism pervasive on this board.

Sickening. Some posters literally have no capacity for reflection.

I don't think this is necessarily directed at me because nowhere did I demand anyone take their avatars down but I did invite what I had hoped would be a reasonable conversation about avatars. That obviously didn't happen.

Originally Posted by Eastern Girl

How am I being childish? I made a joke. Forgive me. I wasn't seriously telling him to change his avatar. It was a joke. I don't care if he keeps it or not.

I wasn't calling you childish for asking him to change his avatar. I was calling you BOTH childish for having the attitude of "I am not going to do anything until I am ordered to or the other side does it first." I don't want to pile on you because I agree with what you're saying. This place is downright toxic at times and some of the stuff that's said on these forums (especially the off topic section) is not only inappropriate but it also kills good discussion. It was never my intention to single you out so for that I am sorry.