JP's hitting doesn't transfer to 1B, he would be a below average offensive 1b
Would disagree, JP had a great season as a rookie. Remember he was hurt for a portion of the year (damaged fingers) and wear from being a catcher. Still put up really good numbers.
His numbers will only improve, look back at Lind's numbers when he was a rookie...
If he was a 1st Baseman his numbers would improve.
JP is not a really good hitter. He's got some pop, but he still had a .280ish OBP last season. He's a good hitting catcher, but as soon as you move him out of there to 1st or DH he's not a major leaguer anymore.
You realize JP was a rookie not to mention he is a catcher....?
To put it in perspective, Lind's OBP as a rookie was .278
You realize JP was a rookie not to mention he is a catcher....?
To put it in perspective, Lind's OBP as a rookie was .278
JP plays a way harder position....
Adam Lind isn't that good of a hitter either. His one good season looks like a major outlier at this point.
JP plays a way harder position, but that's irrelevant when you talk about him moving to 1B.
I agree that Arencibia will improve. It's just that the guy had a .720 OPS last season. Even if he takes a big jump forward and gets into that .780-.800 range that's still not great as a first baseman (especially one who likely wouldn't provide much defensive value considering the position change). Great as a catcher though. He'll be great trade bait once D'Arnaud is MLB ready.
I sure trust what AA is doing - but I hope to the lords above, that if he were to ever be really right, that is is with Darvish. That is a large financial commitment, if true, and if Darvish flops - it will hamper this franchise for what I am assuming, a long time to come. As someone said, if you bid 40+ million for negotiating rights, you aren't signing him to a three year deal - we are probably looking at five minimum.
Like I said, I trust Anthopolous - but please make good with this.
I sure trust what AA is doing - but I hope to the lords above, that if he were to ever be really right, that is is with Darvish. That is a large financial commitment, if true, and if Darvish flops - it will hamper this franchise for what I am assuming, a long time to come. As someone said, if you bid 40+ million for negotiating rights, you aren't signing him to a three year deal - we are probably looking at five minimum.
Like I said, I trust Anthopolous - but please make good with this.
I agree, you want this move to work but the reason I think Darvish is so attractive is if he flops it actually won't hamper the Franchise that much. Let's first assume that by Flop you mean a complete bust as in can't pitch in the majors. However, most scouts have said that the worst they say Darvish is as a 3/4. Considered a bust for sure for that type of dough but overal doens't make it a mistake.
The nice thing about the posting fee is it's a one time thing and IMO just based on Darvish' marketability they'll get most of that back. The commitment of say 5 years 75 million is not that bad if they did have to absorb it. Now they don't have to deal their pitching prospects to get a top 2 starter they can let them develop so if Darvish does flop completely they still have depth they can move or allow to develop into affordable players. All in all, sure there is risk invovled but IMO this is about as calculated a risk as you can take when you're running a pro sports franchise. As long as the Jays get a top 4 starter for at least 3/4 years our of Darivsh and only sign him for about the rumored 5/75 I think you would call this a solid investment.
I agree in the fact that is didn't cost you assets to land Darvish - but money is still very real, and $50 million just for negotiating rights is a lot of money that could have been used else where if Darvish does not pan out. That is all I am saying - agree completely that it is a good deal in the sense that you didn't hurt your franchise by trading away assets to land him.
Not sure if this has been posted, but Darvish has some nasty stuff. That slider bites hard and late.
He's so much better now then he was 2 years ago.
Most North Americans remember him as the 23 year old Japan brought in to close the final against Korea and he blew it. He did however retire the side in the 10th to get the win.
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Which is fair, i'm just saying that I think only committing 65 to 75 million for 5 years for a player plus a one time fee, is less or a risk than saying commitment upwards of 150 mill plus on a player like Fielder. If the 2nd option does not pan out you're in huge trouble, whereas IMO if the first option doesn't pan out is sucks, but does not cripple the franchise. Both are risks, but one is more calculated than the other IMO.
It would be interesting to get Darvish for sure. If you could add him, and a guy like Gio Gonzalez, than the starting rotation is really solid if Darvish can put up similar numbers to what Matsuzaka was putting up early in his MLB career.
I personally would chase and spend some money on pitching for guys in that age bracket. When most other top pitchers hit free agency they're usually at an age, where you're better off not giving them the long term deal.
As for adding hitting, thats usually easier to do via trade than add pitching. If you can set the rotation up, you're in good position to add hitters when you need them.
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It would be interesting to get Darvish for sure. If you could add him, and a guy like Gio Gonzalez, than the starting rotation is really solid if Darvish can put up similar numbers to what Matsuzaka was putting up early in his MLB career.
I personally would chase and spend some money on pitching for guys in that age bracket. When most other top pitchers hit free agency they're usually at an age, where you're better off not giving them the long term deal.
As for adding hitting, thats usually easier to do via trade than add pitching. If you can set the rotation up, you're in good position to add hitters when you need them.
I agree, and another reason I favor Darvish. I find getting controllable pitching, IE. Gonzalez, is going to cost the Jays far too much especially based on what the As got for Cahill. Not only do I think hitting is a little easier to acquire, the Jays were 6th in Runs scored last year but 21st in avg and 18th in On base percentage and in the bottom 3rd for most pitching statistics. I don't think a middle of the order bat that is doing to back up Batistia is as important as more guys that hit for avg and get on base combined with pitching.
I find getting controllable pitching, IE. Gonzalez, is going to cost the Jays far too much especially based on what the As got for Cahill.
I wouldn't want Gonzalez anyways... he walks way to many guys (plus I think he'd take a beating just by having to face AL East opponents in AL East ballparks... that guys home-road splits were not good).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross16
I don't think a middle of the order bat that is doing to back up Batistia is as important as more guys that hit for avg and get on base combined with pitching.
Yeah echo that... Jays need more guys getting on base (rather then out). I think full years out of Lawrie, Rasmus (who I think will bounce back in a big way), and Johnson will help a lot as will as a bit of maturation out of Arencibia. The jays have a lot of guys that can slug but they need the guys in front of them to get on to do the real damage. Hope the jays can sign Darvish... he'd give them solid starters 1 through 3 with 4 & 5 still being question marks but really high upside question marks.
Jays are sooooooo close to being a playoff team. I can feel it in my bones.
I wouldn't want Gonzalez anyways... he walks way to many guys (plus I think he'd take a beating just by having to face AL East opponents in AL East ballparks... that guys home-road splits were not good).
I agree, was just using him as an example. I would go for Latos or Danks before I looked at Gonzalez. i think at best he is a number 3 in the AL East and would likely cost the Jays two top pitching prospects. Not worth it IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallex
Yeah echo that... Jays need more guys getting on base (rather then out). I think full years out of Lawrie, Rasmus (who I think will bounce back in a big way), and Johnson will help a lot as will as a bit of maturation out of Arencibia. The jays have a lot of guys that can slug but they need the guys in front of them to get on to do the real damage. Hope the jays can sign Darvish... he'd give them solid starters 1 through 3 with 4 & 5 still being question marks but really high upside question marks.
Jays are sooooooo close to being a playoff team. I can feel it in my bones.
IMO, if they get Darvish and he comes even close to what he is advertised they are a playoff team next year with the extra wild card, heck even with the normal wildcard they would have a darn good shot. Offense is there, and getting a legit closer and someone who can be a top 2 to allow guys like Alvarez, Cecil/Mcgowan battle it out without having to put up huge inning numbers is enough to make a serious run IMO.
6:04pm: There are reports from Japan indicating the winning bid for Darvish was around $48MM, tweets MLB.com's Anthony Castrovince. Castrovince includes a Blue Jays hashtag on his tweet, but notes that nothing is confirmed about either the bid price or the winning team.
I sure trust what AA is doing - but I hope to the lords above, that if he were to ever be really right, that is is with Darvish. That is a large financial commitment, if true, and if Darvish flops - it will hamper this franchise for what I am assuming, a long time to come. As someone said, if you bid 40+ million for negotiating rights, you aren't signing him to a three year deal - we are probably looking at five minimum.
Like I said, I trust Anthopolous - but please make good with this.
I agree. AA's track record speaks for itself. He does his homework and looks at all angles from financials to talent and knowing the potentials and abilities of his current players and as well, knowing when to cut his losses.
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It would be interesting to get Darvish for sure. If you could add him, and a guy like Gio Gonzalez, than the starting rotation is really solid if Darvish can put up similar numbers to what Matsuzaka was putting up early in his MLB career.
I personally would chase and spend some money on pitching for guys in that age bracket. When most other top pitchers hit free agency they're usually at an age, where you're better off not giving them the long term deal.
As for adding hitting, thats usually easier to do via trade than add pitching. If you can set the rotation up, you're in good position to add hitters when you need them.
saw a stat that Gio's WHIP against the AL East is something like 1.6
think he benefits a ton from being in the West where the last few years only really Texas has been a threat
I think with Darvish (if it happens) Romero, and Morrow it's a good core 3 all in their mid 20's
I wouldn't make a move for someone unless they were better than Gio, especially with the supposed asking price
Keith Law said the A's were asking for Martin Perez (top 10 prospect last year) for him, that's too right I think
Quote:
Originally Posted by flambers
Would disagree, JP had a great season as a rookie. Remember he was hurt for a portion of the year (damaged fingers) and wear from being a catcher. Still put up really good numbers.
His numbers will only improve, look back at Lind's numbers when he was a rookie...
If he was a 1st Baseman his numbers would improve.
his numbers may improve but his ceiling is at best an average 1b, JP is thought of as a great hitter because he plays center
I think Lind is average there
You need big production out of a few key positions and 1B is one of them
I don't think JP will ever be that good, but if he could that would be great
