Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I have my doubts that he will get the death penalty, his state of mind and his mental illness will be key points for the defense.

I'm not sure how it works, but he has to understand the difference from right and wrong and be fully aware of his act.

I'm not sure that he is going to be able to dicern right from wrong in this case.

Maybe one of the lawyers here understands death penalty codes.

I would expect that his treatment will be the same as the guy who shot RR, life long incarceration in a mental facility.

On a personal note and not to sound liberal, because usually I'm not, I'd almost rather not see him as a death penalty statistic if he is truly mentally ill and not in control of himself.

There are a variety of tests depending upon the jurisdiction. This link has a pretty solid overview: http://www.psychiatry.us/articledetail.php?ID=44&CID=

I'm not sure if he was charged under federal law (I assume the killing of a federal judge would allow that) but here is the federal standard:

"It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under any federal statute that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality of the wrongfulness of his acts. Mental disease/defect does not otherwise constitute a defense".

It will be interesting to see if insanity is raised, and if so how succesful it is. It's a highly fact dependent area, and the standards can shift quite dramatically from court to court.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

For interest, the very left wing Daily Kos puts a bullseye on Gabrielle Giffords in 2008.

You can put a target and throw anything at it.

The crosshairs are for guns.

Also, from my perspective, Palin isn't getting trashed because of a single inappropriate graphic. Her use of this type of supposedly "rugged" yet violent imagery is continuous and (imo) over the top.

Telling people to not retreat, but instead "reload." Having a show where she routinely draws attention to her ability to kill animals, etc...

I'm not blaming Palin, but her response to all this underscores her self-absorption (surveyor's symbol? please...). She's circled the wagons around herself rather than addressing the incident for what it is. I think Frum gets it right here:

"Palin failed to appreciate the question being posed to her. That question was not: “Are you culpable for the shooting?” The question was: “Having put this unfortunate image on the record, can you respond to the shooting in a way that demonstrates your larger humanity? And possibly also your potential to serve as leader of the entire nation?”

... Of course, Palin has yet to give the answer called for by events. Instead, her rapid response operation has focused on pounding home the message that Palin is innocent, that she has been unfairly maligned by hostile critics. Which in this case happened to be a perfectly credible message. And also perfectly inadequate. Palin’s post-shooting message was about Palin, not about Giffords. It was defensive, not inspiring. And it was petty at a moment when Palin had been handed perhaps her last clear chance to show herself presidentially magnanimous."

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

For interest, the very left wing Daily Kos puts a bullseye on Gabrielle Giffords in 2008.

Surely it's a false equivalence to compare a fringe site like the Daily Kos with mainsteam politicians like Sarah Palin or Sharron Angle (2010 Republican candidate for senate in Nevada who suggested that "second amendment remedies" may be needed to defeat Obama's agenda).

Daily Kos is like the liberal equivalent of Free Republic. It's a website where hyper-partisans like to gather. For a true comparison to Palin and Angle, you'd have to find quotes from Joe Biden or Harry Reid using similar language with cute innuendos about committing violence against their political opponents.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

For interest, the very left wing Daily Kos puts a bullseye on Gabrielle Giffords in 2008.




EDIT, some possible further insight into the conspiracy theories of the accused:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/113176989.html

Maybe. That's about as obscure as it gets.

Cowperson

Interesting that this blog, which had no issues spreading the idea that Palin's youngest son was actually her Grandson, is guilty of something that many of its followers hold Palin in contempt for.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Having a show where she routinely draws attention to her ability to kill animals, etc...

"

What does this have to do with anything?

[tjinaz]

Daily Kos is like the liberal equivalent of Free Republic. It's a website where hyper-partisans like to gather. For a true comparison to Palin and Angle, you'd have to find quotes from Joe Biden or Harry Reid using similar language with cute innuendos about committing violence against their political opponents.

from the Wall Street Journal -

By WSJ Staff

[Editor's note: This blog post was published in 2008. In the wake of Saturday’s shooting rampage in Tucson, Ariz., a number of lawmakers and others have called for toning down the political rhetoric and President Barack Obama led a moment of silence this morning for the victims. Click here and here for more. Also, check back with Washington Wire for updates.]
Amy Chozick reports on the presidential race from Philadelphia.
Mobster wisdom tells us never to bring a knife to a gun fight. But what does political wisdom say about bringing a gun to a knife fight?
That’s exactly what Barack Obama said he would do to counter Republican attacks “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/0...e-bring-a-gun/

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

reload your quivers!!!

[Cowperson]

Controversial church to protest at the nine year old victim's funeral with signs like THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER!!!

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-politico.html

[T@T]

From this


To this

[Cowperson]

Loughner, the shooter, was registered as an independent and did not vote in the 2010 election.

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/c.j...xml&cid=578815

[AvsJerk]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.
Having a show where she routinely draws attention to her ability to kill animals, etc...

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What does this have to do with anything?

I watched a couple of the Palin shows out of a morbid car wreck looking kind of reflex...my take was that the wild animals of the world are fairly safe with her handling the gun. Every time I saw her handle a firearm, she looked very uncomfortable and inexperienced...I'm not convinced that she was even the one that eventually shot and killed the caribou in the one episode.

Regardless, I am offended by Palins (self-)association with the hunting populace...it's obvious to me that she's just doing it for image and votes, kind of like Ronald Reagans, and later George W. Bushs cowboy tough guy associations. That so many Americans fall for the bs also offends me and makes me question the cultural intelligence of my beloved country.

[Gozer]

Arguments that both political poles are contributing to the uglyness is false and the policies voted on/against by Republicans prove it.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Loughner, the shooter, was registered as an independent and did not vote in the 2010 election.

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/c.j...xml&cid=578815

I consider the political leanings of the shooter irrelevant, he was at the epicenter of political emotion in the country. This is not a once in a generation coincidence.

[SeeBass]

I guess a good example of how polarizing america is that both sides are racing to see which side is to blame.

Iam rolling in the mud with them, so I sure cant thumb my nose at them, I guess.

I do look forward to The Daily Show Tonight though.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Controversial church to protest at the nine year old victim's funeral with signs like THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER!!!

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-politico.html

That idiot Phelps spreads his message of hate everywhere, and uses the most controversial situations. For the most part, people protect the grievers by blocking the protesters. He's making an appearance at that funeral just to cause a stir, and I wish the media wouldn't give him the attention he so craves.

People are learning to ignore him, but I can't imagine if my son or daughter was killed in Afghanistan and he was there with his cult spewing hateful things about my child, which is what he so often does to grieving parents. Sickening.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by T@T

From this


To this

Freak.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Controversial church to protest at the nine year old victim's funeral with signs like THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER!!!

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-politico.html

The last few of these high profile funerals that Phelps and his rejects have vowed to have a presence at have ended up Phelps free. They were going to Elizabeth Edwards funeral and were no shows.

A kid from Wichita died in Afghanistan last week and will have a funeral around the same time. My guess is they make the short trip here instead, if they aren't afraid of their stalker.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by AvsJerk

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.
Having a show where she routinely draws attention to her ability to kill animals, etc...




I watched a couple of the Palin shows out of a morbid car wreck looking kind of reflex...my take was that the wild animals of the world are fairly safe with her handling the gun. Every time I saw her handle a firearm, she looked very uncomfortable and inexperienced...I'm not convinced that she was even the one that eventually shot and killed the caribou in the one episode.

Regardless, I am offended by Palins (self-)association with the hunting populace...it's obvious to me that she's just doing it for image and votes, kind of like Ronald Reagans, and later George W. Bushs cowboy tough guy associations. That so many Americans fall for the bs also offends me and makes me question the cultural intelligence of my beloved country.

Yeah, I haven't watched so I don't know. In any case, what you've said isn't what Flames Fan PhD was getting at, I am sure.

Growing up in Montana and Colorado, I defend ethical hunting every chance I get.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Arguments that both political poles are contributing to the uglyness is false and the policies voted on/against by Republicans prove it.

So the rhetoric is irrelevant and only the voting records matter here?

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The last few of these high profile funerals that Phelps and his rejects have vowed to have a presence at have ended up Phelps free. They were going to Elizabeth Edwards funeral and were no shows.

A kid from Wichita died in Afghanistan last week and will have a funeral around the same time. My guess is they make the short trip here, if they aren't afraid of their stalker.

Just before Thanksgiving he was in a little town South of Kansas City called Harrisonville where a 20 year old kid died overseas. Thousands of people showed up to the funeral just to block him so that the family couldn't see him. He had to be escorted away by police. I was so proud to be friends with some of those people, and I wish I would have gone.

http://www.plaintruth.com/the_plain_...s-funeral.html