Weird because aside from here, every where else seems to think that Trudeau did really well. Even a guy in the Sun wrote a column saying how well he did when the expectations were so low.
I think those "he's not ready" commercials have actually gotten to me. I watch him speak and I want him to be tougher, but not in a fake way. Maybe that's why I prefer Mulcair as a leader. I literally despise the NDP but I think Mulcair demonstrates the best leadership qualities. Thinking further I'd say he and May had the best performances, and I agree that Harper didn't lose and that's all he needed to do.
I wanted to see Trudeau with a performance that made this a real race, and I just didn't see it. His closing was laughable-- he's trying too hard in the wrong ways. He needs to be punchier and cause a stir. Just my own thoughts.
I think those "he's not ready" commercials have actually gotten to me. I watch him speak and I want him to be tougher, but not in a fake way. Maybe that's why I prefer Mulcair as a leader. I literally despise the NDP but I think Mulcair demonstrates the best leadership qualities. Thinking further I'd say he and May had the best performances, and I agree that Harper didn't lose and that's all he needed to do.
I wanted to see Trudeau with a performance that made this a real race, and I just didn't see it. His closing was laughable-- he's trying too hard in the wrong ways. He needs to be punchier and cause a stir. Just my own thoughts.
I know what you mean I think, and I feel sort of similar. I have a preference for a guy who will come out and basically just say "with all due respect, that's complete BS" and then lay it out for his opponents. Unfortunately, it would be political suicide. People want to see a debate...but then if you actually started debating and taking it to your opponents you would be seen as being rude and never shutting up. Its not actually a debate at all, despite the name. He did get some good "That's simply not true" shots in against Harper, and while others here hated it, I thought the "9 Supreme Court Justices" line was a pretty solid one against Mulcair.
I have to say I didn't watch the whole thing, so I'm going by what little I did see and other reactions. Aside from this thread (to my utter shock!) Trudeau seems to have done well. Also widely thought is that Mulcair was brutal. I think that is because the attack ads set the bar so low that Trudeau couldn't possibly fail; I mean sure some people hate him, but the guy has been an MP for a number of years and despite the terrible actors in the ads he does have some intelligence and credibility. And Mulcair had this kind of honeymoon in the polls where the bar for him was just set too high I think. He simply isn't a charismatic, feel good kind of leader.
Like I say, I don't expect that this makes any huge difference in the longer term. I do think that it will give some people a reason not to discount Trudeau and the Liberals right away though.
I don't think that Mulcair is going to be all that happy with himself, I don't think he had a strong performance.
Trudeau was better then I thought he would be, but still far from being a leader of a major political party, his closing was atrocious, and he'll probably see a bit of a voter hit in the next polls.
I think Harper did what he had to do, he didn't get tagged, he certainly came across as the calmest of the bunch, and nobody landed anything major on him outside of the senate reform.
May surprised me, she was better then I thought she would be, and while she has the bad habit of speaking out of turn, she landed some good jabs on everyone else, she surprisingly handled herself well on the C-51 stuff.
I don't think anyone won tonight, May probably did the best job.
I don't think Harper lost much if anything.
I think Trudeau and Mulcair will wake up tomorrow not being happy with their performance.
But its the first debate, these are the expected results.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
I think those "he's not ready" commercials have actually gotten to me. I watch him speak and I want him to be tougher, but not in a fake way. Maybe that's why I prefer Mulcair as a leader. I literally despise the NDP but I think Mulcair demonstrates the best leadership qualities. Thinking further I'd say he and May had the best performances, and I agree that Harper didn't lose and that's all he needed to do.
I wanted to see Trudeau with a performance that made this a real race, and I just didn't see it. His closing was laughable-- he's trying too hard in the wrong ways. He needs to be punchier and cause a stir. Just my own thoughts.
Totally agree on Mulcair; I strongly disagree with much of the NDPs platform and their social policies, but at least Angry Beard has a spine and doesn't come across as a poor B-list actor, which is all I took out of Trudeau's drama class performance. And that's being generous.
Mulcair DOES show leadership qualities that I like, unfortunately it's for all the wrong reasons. May I thought did a good job sticking it to the other candidates, but from her position, that's easy. She has nothing to lose and hasn't been running the country for over a decade. I thought she hung herself out to dry though on the pipeline topic, trying to convince Mulcair to support her when again she has nothing to lose. Mulcair however, smartly did no such thing. No reason to do her any favors.
To me, the candidates represented...
Harper: play it safe, and stick to the game plan because it's what got us here. Speak to your track record, and allow the others to attack it because it's all they have anyways.
Mulcair: did everything he could to show that he can be a strong leader, and in many ways, achieved that tonight. Although he must not think much of Canadians intelligence when he outlines in his closing remarks how under the Harper govt we have seen the lowest levels of growth since before the 2nd world war. Anyone care to point out the last time we had as bad a recession as we had in 2008? Yeah. He lost some points for me in his closing remarks.
May: I honestly believe she did a great job in orating her points, she isn't scared to back down from any issue or anyone, but as I said before her position dictates that anywas. She's smart, I really believe that what you see is what you get with May, besides the obvious politician double speak we always get, I mean to say she doesn't appear to be acting for the camera. I like that however her party and platform is akin to state sponsored lolly pops and unicorns. Never gonna happen.
Trudeau: he didn't do as bad as many expected, myself included, but too many times I felt like he either didn't hear questions or ignored them, and went to liberal talking points as a defacto answer; social issues, indigenous peoples issues, ect ect. His closing remarks segment was atrocious; I mean of course this guy taught school drama class, he's tailor made for it. Major groan there. He lost my vote long before tonight based on his comments of Alberta and the people that reside here.
Good debate anyways, wish there was a little but more time for some actual meat and potatoes instead of platitudes, but that's politics for ya.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Weird because aside from here, every where else seems to think that Trudeau did really well. Even a guy in the Sun wrote a column saying how well he did when the expectations were so low.
As usual though, whichever party people support is who won the debate. I would say Mulcair lost and May/Trudeau won. Harper didn't lose and that's really what he needs to do as incumbent. Realistically though the election is over 2 months away...so anything from tonight isn't a factor that far in advance anyway.
I agree. I am surprised at how many people thought Trudeau was that bad, even his closing remarks. I felt he laid out his thoughts well and didn't say anything that he will regret. It also seemed like he was trying to drive home that they are middle path and not just an NDP alternative.
I always feel that too many people look at superficial aspects during these debates. I also feel that the format of this debate didn't lend itself well to the 3 centre/left parties though as they didn't get to drive home their social platforms. You could tell that the other 3 wanted to sneak it in whenever they could, but it some times made their arguments disjointed by trying to say too much with little time.
I think people forget that how when Harper became PM, he was completely wooden and about as charismatic as a stone. Obviously he learned a lot on the job about public speaking.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I was taken aback by how many 'uums' and 'ahhs' Trudeau had...really didn't help his legitimacy. His close was terrible...oh Justin WTF.
Mulcair and May did well in my eyes...
Harper...did his Harper thing...C-51 and TPP are the unfortunate policies that I don't like the PCs for. Secrecy and concentration of power...no thanks
__________________
"WHAT HAVE WE EVER DONE TO DESERVE THIS??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US????" -Oiler Fan
"It was a debacle of monumental proportions." -MacT
I didn't mind Harper actually, thought he was the best of the bunch despite not really agreeing with everything they're doing. It was an interesting debate but I thought Trudeau was getting a bit worked up and was breathing weird and you could tell he was much younger than the rest.
I didn't think there were any clear cut winners or losers. Elizabeth May had the best showing, but I doubt it got her any more votes. Mulcair got toned down alot, I'm guessing so that people would see him as Prime Ministerery (whatever that means). Trudeau really showed up when it came to discussing Canada's role in the international community, but was just ok on everything else. Harper was there and didn't lose votes by weathering the storm, but i doubt he picked up any either. I don't think much will change after this, except May might not be viewed as nutty.
Oh and Trudeau had a weird blue tint on his face in the far camera shots, presumably because of the lighting.
Last edited by smoothpops; 08-07-2015 at 07:44 PM.
Weird because aside from here, every where else seems to think that Trudeau did really well. Even a guy in the Sun wrote a column saying how well he did when the expectations were so low.
As usual though, whichever party people support is who won the debate. I would say Mulcair lost and May/Trudeau won. Harper didn't lose and that's really what he needs to do as incumbent. Realistically though the election is over 2 months away...so anything from tonight isn't a factor that far in advance anyway.
That's exactly how I felt. Trudeau fared really well, but I think the best participant was May. She did a good job of demonstrating how well she does her job as a parliamentarian.
Harper did the same as always, calmly stuck to his taking points while being attacked from all sides. He made some good counters, but his own jabs were rebutted very well, especially by Trudeau and May.
Mulcair was the only one who disappointed, but he wasn't terrible enough turn people off. The sovereignty attack was very effective in knocking him off guard, I suspect. Trudeau and Harper did well in that assault. I actually thought May was focusing on Mulcair almost as much as Harper. It will be interesting to see if there is some movement between green and NDP supporters in this campaign for the main green target ridings.
I think this was a very good and productive debate. Paiken was a better moderator, but somehow the candidates performed better.
Mulcair at first didn't come across as that likeable with as said, no charisma but we want someone to run the country and I think he's capable. I like him in Parliamentary debates.
Trudeau was okay and looked comfortable and competent. I didn't see the over acting but I didn't watch it all.
May was good and did well to put her strange performance when she over imbibed a little, behind her.
Harper tried to play the veteran in touch with reality but his shield is breaking down compared to previous debates.
Gotta agree with Slava that it's interesting to see the reaction on CP and the reactions online. I'm trying to be a bit impartial with the federal election and with the debates to see how it looks from a non-partisan take, but I'd say Trudeau, May and Harper came out and did what they had to do.
May really seemed to turned heads and I see a small bump for the greens. Mulcair I think dropped the ball, not as bad as Jean did during the provincial debate, but the most memorable thing from Mulcair will be his crazy eye expressions and sometimes cheesey car sales man delivery. With all that being said, my track record for analyzing debates is atrocious as I thought Notley was rude and smirky during the Provincial debate...
ThI actually thought May was focusing on Mulcair almost as much as Harper. It will be interesting to see if there is some movement between green and NDP supporters in this campaign for the main green target ridings.
May and the Greens biggest hope for more seats is to steal votes from the NDP, especially on the island and other NDP strong holds in rural Ontario. At the end of the day the greens aren't going to convince many Conservatives to jump to them.
Mulcair was awful, he is just not ready for prime time. Unable to think on his feet, no ability to connect with Canadians. I mean he could not even read a prepared statement for his 2 minute closing.
I thought Harper did fine with what he has to work with. He pretty much had to admit that he is in the midst of the second recession on his watch. But his government has not given him much to work with.
I was surprised by how strong Trudeau was, he seemed to have a solid grasp of the issues and definitely attacked Harper a lot more than Mulcair.
May was solid and forceful but she is playing for a much smaller audience.
The Following User Says Thank You to Aarongavey For This Useful Post:
I thought Trudeau was awful...particularly at the end. That was just a terrible pitch.
Mulcair was really good.... however (other than the "creep" factor he exuded at times) I think he got one right in the teeth towards the end when the subject was security and he once again spun it back to the environment which just looked foolish.
May was way better than I thought she was ever able to be, though that's not saying much.
Harper was just...there. really had no answer on the Senate stuff and no where to hide when it was brought up. Though he did feel a lot more "Prime Ministerial" than any of the others, which he should be able to pull off of course.
We did not watch the same thing then.
I was actually impressed with May, not that it matters. And Trudeau, until whatever that closing statement was. Harper was unimpressive, but I think he did and Said what he needed to do.
If Muclair wasn't the biggest loser, I dunno. He is last on the list of leaders I would vote for. He was the farthest off the mark in the whole evening and on sovereignty it was downright painful. Trudeau absolutely schooled him. Muclair came across as shifty and untrustworthy, imo.
Last edited by EldrickOnIce; 08-07-2015 at 01:10 AM.
