2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[1qqaaz]

Just curious, which team do you think would finish higher in the standings or and do better in the playoffs next season?

-The Flames minus Gaudreau, but with Gallant/Boudreau/Laviolette as coach. Only picks and young pieces come back from the trade.

Or

-The Flames with Gaudreau, but with Ward as the coach. Brodie and Talbot re-signed. Maybe Gustafsson as well.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

Or the Flames are free to work another deal with the contract they take on and don't want to maintain.

The problem I see here is that you're putting all of the impetus on the flames to execute the trade.

I don't think we should be actively pounding the pavement for Johnny trades, that will get us into a losing situation. We should make other GMs bid on johnny, much like Sakic did for duchene. Sure sakic did have to do some other contract work, but that was after he had other GMs backing up the truck. Then he got ottawa to pay a bit more to help him dump the extra salary and get it to work. That's the situation we want to be in.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Just curious, which team do you think would finish higher in the standings or and do better in the playoffs next season?

-The Flames minus Gaudreau, but with Gallant/Boudreau/Laviolette as coach. Only picks and young pieces come back from the trade.

Or

-The Flames with Gaudreau, but with Ward as the coach. Brodie and Talbot re-signed. Maybe Gustafsson as well.

Does option 1 include Hall signing in Calgary?

If it doesn't, I think it's pretty easy to say the flames would ice a worse product. Whether or not they cobble together wins and are ultra motivated, they havent replace Johnny's offensive talent up front and the team will definitely suffer for it.

Option 2 is just a tow the line, I don't like that. This same core has not been able to make the next jump, somethings got to give.

Option 1 + a hall signing is still a no brainer IMO. But it is dependent on that signing.

[Flash Walken]

Holding onto Gaudreau until after his bonus is paid out, or his NTC kicks in, or he gets injured are all scenarios the flames can't really entertain.

Is Murray going to want to pay Gaudreau 3 million bucks to then trade him? No

Is Gaudreau worth more with a year left on his deal than 2? no

Would another subpar season from Gaudreau increase his value? no

Are the Flames actually any good which would make it practical not to trade him? hell no.

[Jeff Lebowski]

People still acting out in emotion eh? Gaudreau for Konecny is a terrible trade for CGY.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Holding onto Gaudreau until after his bonus is paid out, or his NTC kicks in, or he gets injured are all scenarios the flames can't really entertain.

IIRC those bonuses were either paid out on contracted date (July 1) so that ship has sailed. The only issue was escrow.

Per Bob McKenzie - Link

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

IIRC those bonuses were either paid out on contracted date (July 1) so that ship has sailed. The only issue was escrow.

Per Bob McKenzie - Link

Very very interesting, thanks for the link

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

People still acting out in emotion eh? Gaudreau for Konecny is a terrible trade for CGY.

But why? Seems like a gimmie to me.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

He lives on that list for some reason.

The article mentions why. Essentially he's due for a contract and if Carolina doesn't want to pay his price they'll trade him, just like they did Lindholm and Hanifin.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

People still acting out in emotion eh? Gaudreau for Konecny is a terrible trade for CGY.

Prepare to be bitterly disappointed by the return if you think it will be dramatically better than a .93 ppg 23 year old winger who plays with an edge on a 5.5 mil a year contract for five more years.

[AC]

Seems to me if multiple people can look at a trade proposal and take every position imaginable (win for Calgary, win for Philly, Konecny is untouchable), then the value is probably pretty close.

He's 23, cost controlled for 5 years, had a PPG season, and brings some intangibles that are highly desirable. If Konecny had a couple empty net points in the playoffs I wonder how much the feeling changes.

Ideally you get more than Konecny for Gaudreau (like a top prospect or pick), but it's hard to figure out what Johnny's value is around the league as the narrative is out that he'll help get you to the dance but struggles significantly when the games matter most. Perhaps unfair, but that idea is out in the media already.

As mentioned earlier, Pierre McGuire went on the Fan690 and talked about this very swap as realistic. So I don't the idea is that far off from reality.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by AC

Ideally you get more than Konecny for Gaudreau (like a top prospect or pick), but it's hard to figure out what Johnny's value is around the league as the narrative is out that he'll help get you to the dance but struggles significantly when the games matter most. Perhaps unfair, but that idea is out in the media already.

What the media thinks doesn't matter. NHL teams have professional scouts. They'll know exactly what they're getting in Gaudreau.

[bax]

Originally Posted by New Era

Or the Flames are free to work another deal with the contract they take on and don't want to maintain.

Yes they are, but if Treliving is trading Gaudreau he is dealing from a position of strength. He doesn't need to accept other team's garbage contracts to make it work. They can keep the headache.

[TheScorpion]

Dougie Hamilton is truly the Larry Murphy of his generation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The problem I see here is that you're putting all of the impetus on the flames to execute the trade.

The problem I see here is that you're putting all of the impetus on the Flyers to execute the trade.

See how easy it is to make that simplistic statement. The reality is that deals have to be two-way streets. You have to give to get, and you take as well. In the cap world, especially the flat cap world, salaries pretty much have to balance out. This is the reality that all teams are facing right now. Unless you have a bottom feeder that is willing to take a salary dump for longer term benefit (draft picks) then you have to make the best of the situation and find a deal that works best for both teams.

Personally I would not take JVR. Doesn't address a need for the Flames. If we have to eat salary I try to angle on Voracek or Gostisbehere as the salary coming back. I would try and do a Frost, Gostisbehere, and a 1st for Gaudreau if salary was a consideration. If Philly needs to dump a big salary, then I would be inclined to look at Voracek with a better sweetener. Frost, Myers, Voracek, 1st for Gaudreau and Ryan. The key is filling important gaps in the lineup. Lucic is still a money pit the team needs to get out from under, but I'm not sure how they do that. Retain a chunk and send him packing as part of this deal? Frost, Myers, Voracek, 1st for Gaudreau and Lucic (25% retained)? Then you square that by knowing you have Frost in the lineup cover the retention? Lots of moving pieces, but we're taking some money back in any deal that happens. It's just the way things are likely to shake out as the teams we are likely to target don't have the cap space to take on Gaudreau without shedding a salary too.

[AC]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What the media thinks doesn't matter. NHL teams have professional scouts. They'll know exactly what they're getting in Gaudreau.

Yeah, obviously.

But if I were a GM of a team trying to succeed in the playoffs, a player's likelihood of figuring it out on a new team would impact my decision. The concern isn't baseless.

[Roof-Daddy]

There are other ways to take cap from Philly in a Gaudreau trade other than JVR.

It'd be much more likely that we'd see Ghost as part of the return. He has slipped down the depth chart in Philly but he would actually provide something the Flames need and that's offense from the back end.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by AC

Yeah, obviously.

But if I were a GM of a team trying to succeed in the playoffs, a player's likelihood of figuring it out on a new team would impact my decision. The concern isn't baseless.

I think a top tier or deeper team could look at Gaudreau and know they could hide him or line match him easier than having to force feed him on the top line night in and out. That alone could lead to better post season results.

[Textcritic]

I still think it is misguided to hyper-focus on Philadelphia as a trade destination for Gaudreau. The value within not having to deal with the NTC is precisely the option of negotiating with multiple teams and settling on the highest return without regard for the destination itself.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Doesn't seem off to me at all.

Makes 7 mil for 3 more without trade restrictions.

Any deal with Philly from Calgary is likely to have him included.

We've had a hard cap in this league for 15 years and trade proposals that don't take that into account as the very first criteria are worthless.

Philly needs to move that contract to round out their roster.

I agree Philly needs to move JVR. I don't think it has to part of a deal for Gaudreau.