High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Way to stereotype 146 million people. '

Rube' seems so appropriate.

Politics aside, the Russians I've met and worked along side have been some of the warmest, friendliest, most generous people I've ever met.

Maybe not all 146 million of them but the vast majority of Russians hold pretty awful views on homosexuality, women's rights, other races, etc. If this is news to you, you need to get out more.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 81MC

So it's offensive to typify blacks, whites, Jews, natives, Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, queers, men, and women. Unless they're Russian.

If you want to say that Muslims generally have backwards views regarding homosexuality and women's rights, you can easily find enough evidence supporting your argument. That's not typifying a group, it's stating what are commonly held beliefs.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Maybe not all 146 million of them but the vast majority of Russians hold pretty awful views on homosexuality, women's rights, other races, etc. If this is news to you, you need to get out more.

Thanks for telling me what I need to do. I've worked in Russia or other parts of the FSU since 1992. I met and married a Russian woman in 1998.

I'm currently living and working in Baku Azerbaijan.

Things are far from perfect in this part of the world, especially when it comes to the State's view on LGBTQ issues but you're so far off about the 'regular' people in these countries I think you're the person that "needs to get out more".

Sent from my MIX using Tapatalk

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I think Russians are a bit different. Most of the world has a religious motivation to deny rights to lgbtq communities...which is terrible. But Russians are just throwback neanderthals. They just like beating up gay people for fun and a vague sense of macho right...Chechnya in particular.

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

No not at all. We're talking about attitudes towards lgbtq communities and women. Russians are decidedly more violent and intolerant than other societies. It has nothing to do with the genetics of being Russian. So it's ok to say so. Right? Or no?

While India may have laws against homosexuality they are by and large more concerned with keeping the a/c on than wiping out a "plague" of gay people. At any given time and place about 35% of Indians disagree with homosexuality. It's roughly double that in mother Russia. If polls aren't your thing there plenty of evidence of Russian intolerance and acceptance of violence towards minorities.

omg wtf indeed

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

omg wtf indeed

There is always a "them" to someone's "us".

[GreenLantern2814]

I could've told you this gif would come in handy here, but not like this.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, is anyone really surprised that Russians would have that attitude? Garbage country/society.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Maybe not all 146 million of them but the vast majority of Russians hold pretty awful views on homosexuality, women's rights, other races, etc. If this is news to you, you need to get out more.

These posts are terrible

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

These posts are terrible

Well I mean I hate to bring facts and stats into an argument like this, but here we go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_r...ote-pew2013-13

Anti-gay sentiment in Russia: Public opinion in Russia tends to be among the most hostile toward homosexuality in the world—outside predominantly Muslim countries and some parts of Africa and Asia—and the level of intolerance has been rising.[10] A 2013 survey found that 74% of Russians said homosexuality should not be accepted by society (up from 60% in 2002), compared to 16% who said that homosexuality should be accepted by society.[11]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/europe...ce-bill-putin/

Moscow (CNN)Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a law that decriminalizes some forms of domestic violence, according to state-run news agency Tass.

Dubbed the "slapping law," it decriminalizes a first offense of domestic violence that does not seriously injure the person, making it a less serious administrative offense.

More than 85% of legislators in Russia's Duma approved the bill last month -- seen as part of Putin's drive to appease conservative pushing "traditional family values."

[Huntingwhale]

I hate to bring personal experience into this...but I have visited Russia a couple times (and not just the touristy areas), had a long term relationship with a Russian girl, work with a bunch of Russians, and consider myself pretty educated and invested in their culture.

No, not all Russians carry that attitude. Just because Putin signs a law does not mean the regular average civilian believe that. Many do, but not all. You pretty much painted a broad stroke brush against that entire culture and literally called their country/society garbage. That's why I think your post is terrible. In a country of 145 million people, you're going to find numerous people who carry the attitude you described. Guess what, that exists even in our little haven here. I could post plenty of youtube links showing intolerance in the streets of Calgary. But that does not represent our culture as whole.

No doubt their society as a whole isn't as free or liberal as our here. No one is denying that. But you just shat on an entire country/society by calling them garbage.

Your post is still terrible.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I hate to bring personal experience into this...but I have visited Russia a couple times (and not just the touristy areas), had a long term relationship with a Russian girl, work with a bunch of Russians, and consider myself pretty educated and invested in their culture.

Pretty sure I said the vast majority and not everyone. And are we going to play the anecdote game now? I grew up with Russians and lived with a bunch in my late teens and early 20s. The ones I knew were giant pieces of crap who thought abusing animals was totally fine and that Canadian women were bitches because they would call the cops if you hit them. This is why anecdotal evidence is generally pretty useless.

No, not all Russians carry that attitude. Just because Putin signs a law does not mean the regular average civilian believe that. Many do, but not all. You pretty much painted a broad stroke brush against that entire culture and literally called their country/society garbage. That's why I think your post is terrible. In a country of 145 million people, you're going to find numerous people who carry the attitude you described. Guess what, that exists even in our little haven here. I could post plenty of youtube links showing intolerance in the streets of Calgary. But that does not represent our culture as whole.

And here's the false equivalence I was waiting for. Again look at what I posted. 85% of Russians are against gay marriage. 74% think homosexuality should not be accepted by society. This isn't a small smattering of fringe elements like it is in Canada, it's the prevailing cultural sentiment by a pretty significant margin.

This doesn't even get into the alarming number of hate crimes committed in Russia, the unwavering support for Putin, the higher than average levels of antisemitism, etc., etc.

I never claimed that all Russians are garbage but the attitudes and beliefs held by a vast majority of Russians certainly are.

[PsYcNeT]

In another surprising CP twist, anecdotes trump evidence.

[northcrunk]

This new left wing racism is just................sad.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Tolerance of intolerance isn't only bad when it applies it to home-grown right wingers. Russia's track record for LGBT rights currently should be called nothing less than garbage (that's not to say that all Russian citizens are) and it's been progressively getting worse - not better. No, it is not comparable to what you would see in Calgary.

It's a country where you can be fined and imprisoned for advocating the "gay agenda." Where teaching children that homosexuality and gender identity is a crime. Only 16% of the country believes that homosexuality should be accepted, significantly less than the amount of Russians who believe that gay people should be isolated from society. More people in Russian believe that gay people should be killed than should be allowed to marry.

Where occupied Chechnya is rounding up and torturing homosexuals and laughing when confronted by suggesting that homosexuals do not exist there and the police are telling parents to kill their gay children so they don't have to. The Chechnya leader is part of the Night Wolves biker gang, the same gang that is founded by the Kremlin, has been called friends by Putin and the leader advocates the slogan "death to fa####s" so much that he suggested it should be an alternative name to the group.

[CliffFletcher]

rubecube may have used inflammatory language, but is it really terrible to point out that some cultures are dramatically worse (or better) than others when it comes to sexism, attitudes towards homosexuality, racism, etc?

I mean, do people really think a woman in the workplace in Russia or Egypt wouldn't typically have worse experiences with men than a woman in Canada? Or that blacks wouldn't encounter more racism in Russia or China than in Canada? Or is it just off-base to say so?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

rubecube may have used inflammatory language, but is it really terrible to point out that some cultures are dramatically worse (or better) than others when it comes to sexism, attitudes towards homosexuality, racism, etc?

I mean, do people really think a woman in the workplace in Russia or Egypt wouldn't typically have worse experiences with men than a woman in Canada? Or that blacks wouldn't encounter more racism in Russia or China than in Canada? Or is it just off-base to say so?

You and I have gotten into this before because I think the way you deflect criticism towards Western democracies by pointing out that it's worse elsewhere is counterproductive, but I certainly don't have a problem with having that debate in general and pointing out which societies are generally more progressive, less progressive, etc.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I hate to bring personal experience into this...but I have visited Russia a couple times (and not just the touristy areas), had a long term relationship with a Russian girl, work with a bunch of Russians, and consider myself pretty educated and invested in their culture.

No, not all Russians carry that attitude. Just because Putin signs a law does not mean the regular average civilian believe that. Many do, but not all. You pretty much painted a broad stroke brush against that entire culture and literally called their country/society garbage. That's why I think your post is terrible. In a country of 145 million people, you're going to find numerous people who carry the attitude you described. Guess what, that exists even in our little haven here. I could post plenty of youtube links showing intolerance in the streets of Calgary. But that does not represent our culture as whole.

No doubt their society as a whole isn't as free or liberal as our here. No one is denying that. But you just shat on an entire country/society by calling them garbage.

Your post is still terrible.

Your personal experiences do not trump statistical facts. The vast majority of Russia's population are against equal rights for LGBT. Putin's approval numbers are also at incredibly high numbers, indicating most people don't disagree with his stance that violence against gays is ok. That's why I say that the culture in today's Russia is garbage, and they deserve zero respect on the international stage

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You and I have gotten into this before because I think the way you deflect criticism towards Western democracies by pointing out that it's worse elsewhere is counterproductive...

It's not about deflecting criticism, it's about recognizing what we're doing right in the West. It's just as important to identify the way instutitions, culture, and values play a part in success as it is to recognize how they need to be reformed.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And here's the false equivalence I was waiting for. Again look at what I posted. 85% of Russians are against gay marriage. 74% think homosexuality should not be accepted by society. This isn't a small smattering of fringe elements like it is in Canada, it's the prevailing cultural sentiment by a pretty significant margin.

Sounds like North America 20-30 years ago. I don't know if I'd describe Canada in the '80s and '90s as a "garbage society".

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Your personal experiences do not trump statistical facts. The vast majority of Russia's population are against equal rights for LGBT. Putin's approval numbers are also at incredibly high numbers, indicating most people don't disagree with his stance that violence against gays is ok. That's why I say that the culture in today's Russia is garbage, and they deserve zero respect on the international stage

I don't think Russian polling numbers are a realistic count of anything. They are propaganda just like they are here. They cannot poll enough of the country to actually find out so they make assumptions based on 3000 'random' calls from their standard list of seniors.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I don't think Russian polling numbers are a realistic count of anything. They are propaganda just like they are here. They cannot poll enough of the country to actually find out so they make assumptions based on 3000 'random' calls from their standard list of seniors.

Then look at the 200% increase in violence against homosexuals since Putin's law in 2013. Look at the things Putin says. There's a number of ways to decipher the truth. You'd have to be managing a fake news campaign of epic proportions to think Russians have been given a bad rap here.