Apparently Iginla sucks......

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by the_professsor

The players you listed above are either just as good (i.e Marleau) or better (Nash) than Iginla. I personally think Staal and Perry are better too but that's arguable.

Iginla does deserve a bit more ice time, but let's not kid ourselves, he isn't as elite as he was 3 years ago

Call me naive, but i'll hold off on the Nash/staal/perry/marleau are better statement until:

a) any of those players put up more points/goals than Iginla (see Nash/staal/perry)

b) any of those players put up more points than iginla playing with less skilled linemates (see marleau)

[Rerun]

Iginla doesn't suck but he's not the player he once was. Anybody who isn't wearing rose colored glasses can see this.

Iggy isn't an elite player anymore and if you take into account the way he's played in 3 of the 4 months of this season (November excluded), he's lucky he made it on to the team.

If Yzerman had been choosing the team in January instead of November, I doubt Iggy would have made it.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by kirant

I'm not entirely sure how replacing Iginla with Toews did anything to improve this...

Babcock coaches a 10th place team. I wouldn't put a ton of stock in his hockey opinions.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Iginla doesn't suck but he's not the player he once was. Anybody who isn't wearing rose colored glasses can see this.

.

of course he's not the player he was at 24. has he been demonstrably worse than many of the other guys through 2 games?

I know scoring 3 against Norway is not an incredible feat, but moving him up from the 4th line got the ball rolling in game one...the team is flat in game 2 and its' him that's demoted, the results don't change

do other players get held accountable also? or just the oldest forward and the youngest D? that will be interesting to monitor going forward

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Call me naive, but i'll hold off on the Nash/staal/perry/marleau are better statement until:

a) any of those players put up more points/goals than Iginla (see Nash/staal/perry)

b) any of those players put up more points than iginla playing with less skilled linemates (see marleau)

Staal has had a 100 point season.........

[the_professsor]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Yea he isn't elite finishing 8th in league scoring last year and 3rd the year before. Yes we get it he isn't having a dominant year but he has proven a hell of a lot more than both Marleau and Nash and if you even WATCHED the game last night you would realize his benching was complete BS. He sat on the bench while the Perry- Staal - Getzlaf line went out there and continued to turn the puck over.

ya i WATCHED the game, thanks for the caps. Where you finished in scoring the last 2 years in the nhl doesn't dictate olympic playing time. 12 minutes of ice and zero shots, plus not coming back low enough to support the D on breakouts might dictate olympic playing time

i trust Babcock more than myself or any other fan to pick the right lines for Canada

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Iginla doesn't suck but he's not the player he once was. Anybody who isn't wearing rose colored glasses can see this.

Iggy isn't an elite player anymore and if you take into account the way he's played in 3 of the 4 months of this season (November excluded), he's lucky he made it on to the team.

If Yzerman had been choosing the team in January instead of November, I doubt Iggy would have made it.

Is Nash an elite player? If Iggy doesn't deserve to be on this team based on this year Nash sure as hell doesn't either and yes I've watched him a lot this year.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Staal has had a 100 point season.........

I think what he was getting at (and I could be wrong) was in reference to this season. the prevailing wisdom seems to be that Iginla used to be good but now he sucks unlike the uber talented young guys that were mentioned. all of whom have comparable (or nearly identical) offensive numbers to Iginla this year

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Is Nash an elite player? If Iggy doesn't deserve to be on this team based on this year Nash sure as hell doesn't either and yes I've watched him a lot this year.

in that case, staal and even neidermayer are question marks to make the team.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by the_professsor

ya i WATCHED the game, thanks for the caps. Where you finished in scoring the last 2 years in the nhl doesn't dictate olympic playing time. 12 minutes of ice and zero shots, plus not coming back low enough to support the D on breakouts might dictate olympic playing time

i trust Babcock more than myself or any other fan to pick the right lines for Canada

I never said where you finished in scoring the last 2 years dictates how much playing time you get in the olympics. You made a FALSE statement that Iggy hasn't been elite in 3 years, I was simply proving you wrong, get it?

As for last nights game, Iggy wasn't great but he wasn't bad just like his linemates. Just because the guy doesn't get a shot doesn't mean he is playing poorly. He set up Crosby and was fine in his own end last night. You can trust Babcock all you want, fact is they just beat a team they are vastly better than in shootout and the blame for that performance is shouldered by everybody INCLUDING Babcock.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

in that case, staal and even neidermayer are question marks to make the team.

Yup and Staal has been BRUTAL up to this point against 2 pretty average teams. Some people on here saying " well who cares if Iggy scored 3 against Norway, it was NORWAY!", while Staal has turned up the suck level another notch in both games against average opponents yet he is seeing more ice time.

[Diverce]

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

was the article wrong? has iginla not done the same thing here in clagary for entire stretches of games? i love our captain but anyone who thinks this is iginla from 06 or before is kidding themselves

The article was wrong, yeah Bab the took him off the top line.... but the times Iginla was out there on the 4th line the energy picked up and then the pace dropped once he came off the ice.... it's easy to pick on him because like Crosby, Iginla is one of the most recognizable player, everyone else looks the same. So if Crosby or Iginla don't play 20 mins your going to notice.

it's not fair to compare any player to what they were 4 years ago, no one is the same as they were 4 years ago. The difference this year is that he has no space. The years after the lockout minus these last 2 years he's had playmakers like Huselius and Tanguay. This year, once he touches the puck he has 2 or 3 players hanging on him, not a lot of players that I know of can score consistently with 2 or 3 players hanging on them because a lot of them have other options to pass too, or are a constant threat to score.... Iginla has no other option, and teams know this.... shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames.

Before Stajan and Hagman joined the club it was easy to design a defense to play the Flames. When Iginla is out, double and triple team him, if Boyd or Glencross make a play so be it, when he's off clog the shooting lanes cause it's going back to the point.

But being the great leader he is, for Canada he'll do what's best for the team, and what he's asked to do. When he comes back, expect a big March from Iggy and the Flames

[CokeMachineGlow]

Originally Posted by Diverce

it's not fair to compare any player to what they were 4 years ago, no one is the same as they were 4 years ago. The difference this year is that he has no space. The years after the lockout minus these last 2 years he's had playmakers like Huselius and Tanguay. This year, once he touches the puck he has 2 or 3 players hanging on him, not a lot of players that I know of can score consistently with 2 or 3 players hanging on them because a lot of them have other options to pass too, or are a constant threat to score.... Iginla has no other option, and teams know this.... shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames.

Before Stajan and Hagman joined the club it was easy to design a defense to play the Flames. When Iginla is out, double and triple team him, if Boyd or Glencross make a play so be it, when he's off clog the shooting lanes cause it's going back to the point.

All excuses. If he's an elite player he should get it done no matter what. Jokinen got it done in Florida surrounded by a crap team, you dont think players tee'd off on him? How about Cammelleri in LA? There's lots of examples of great players on a bad team achieving greatly... this double team nonsense is just that.. nonsense

[Rerun]

I've always believed that the definition of a great or elite player is a player who by his very presence, makes his team mates better.

Can we say that of Iginla any more?

[the_professsor]

Originally Posted by CGY12

I never said where you finished in scoring the last 2 years dictates how much playing time you get in the olympics. You made a FALSE statement that Iggy hasn't been elite in 3 years, I was simply proving you wrong, get it?

As for last nights game, Iggy wasn't great but he wasn't bad just like his linemates. Just because the guy doesn't get a shot doesn't mean he is playing poorly. He set up Crosby and was fine in his own end last night. You can trust Babcock all you want, fact is they just beat a team they are vastly better than in shootout and the blame for that performance is shouldered by everybody INCLUDING Babcock.

ya i agree that everyones to blame, the reason i got into this thread was because some people (not necessarily you) are hating on babcock, thinking if we throw iginla on the first line we would've won 5-2.

And you didn't prove me wrong at all, you can dig up all the stats you want, iggy used to dominate hockey games, he doesn't anymore. Still a great player, but not the same.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by CokeMachineGlow

All excuses. If he's an elite player he should get it done no matter what. Jokinen got it done in Florida surrounded by a crap team, you dont think players tee'd off on him? How about Cammelleri in LA? There's lots of examples of great players on a bad team achieving greatly... this double team nonsense is just that.. nonsense

Ohhhhh man, anyone want a crack at this?

Don't really know what your driving at, Iggy has put up far, far more points than the players you have mentioned all the while being covered (see consistent double/triple teamed) many times in the past decade. Really what are you going on about?

He was and in many peoples opinions continues to be an elite player, I would say consistently finishing top 10 in the league in goals despite having little help from his line mates is getting it done, or does one have to be Ovie to "get it done"? Food for thought, Iggy had 3 goals in NINE minutes of ice time last game, far below the average ice time of Canadian forwards. Guess he didn't get it done tho, he's not elite

Originally Posted by Rerun

I've always believed that the definition of a great or elite player is a player who by his very presence, makes his team mates better.

Can we say that of Iginla any more?

Would the Flames look the same without Iggy? Would the top line have looked as good a few nights ago with 0 goals rather than the 3 Iggy potted? Crosby has looked average at best without Iggy on his line and Nash hasn't done much of anything regardless other than use his body and not create any real threat offensively.

Yes I think most people would say Iggy is still a game changer.

[CGY12]

I never said they would have won 5-2 if Iggy was kept on the first line and I don't think that's what anybody on here is saying. People were frustrated because it wasn't like Iggy was playing poorly and the top line wasn't getting any chances, yet some how Iggy found himself stapled to the bench. Guys like Niedermayer, Pronger, Staal, Getzlaf and Perry were playing awful yet they were seeing a regular shift. The Getzlaf was non existent the entire night. This is a team full of capable players that can get the job done and I realize that but I just want to see every player held to the same amount of accountability.

[Young-Sneezy]

Originally Posted by Smell My Finger

One thing that is certain if Canada were to have lost that shoot out. Nobody could put even 1% of blame on Iginla.

...but we did win..

therefore, its time for everyone to media-jerk-off syd the kid like its the second coming of Christ.

that means all the other players have to get ready for his preverbal bust directly into their eyes... Re: Iggy sucks

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

they should've benched Crosby for not shooting when Iggy set him up all alone in front of the net. instead he dekes and curls behind the net, much like Shaun Donovan may have done. hahhaa.

[Chump]

Rick Nash 28 29 57 -8

Jarome Iginla 27 30 57 +4

The guys have nearly identical stats this year and Iginla has proven much more over his career yet Nash is an elite player and a lock for the top line while Iginila is a non-elite and borderline team Cananda player.

I just don't see it and that is not mentioning their play in the tournament to date and Ignila's past olympic performances.