2008 NFL Off season thread.

[SteveToms]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3203489

-- John Harbaugh was hired Friday as head coach of the Baltimore Ravens,

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by KTown

I'm sure Parcells would be willing to give up the first overall pick as he's got too many holes to fill.

That being said why the heck would dallas need mcfadden, when they got two good running backs.

Well, we all know that owners/GM's can get infatuated with players (Ricky Williams, anyone?). McFadden is a Razorback, Jerry Jones is a Razorback, stranger things have happened. Julius Jones is a free agent and not expected to return.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Because neither has breakaway speed. Barber gets you some tough yards. Jones is a steady back but neither is remotely close to Smith or Dorsett.

Tony Dorsett may be the most underrated HOF running back. People talk about the best running backs ever and he's rarely mentioned. Earl Campbell is another and I'd take both of them over almost everyone.

Sorry to go off topic.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

Well, we all know that owners/GM's can get infatuated with players (Ricky Williams, anyone?). McFadden is a Razorback, Jerry Jones is a Razorback, stranger things have happened. Julius Jones is a free agent and not expected to return.

Not that Jerry Jones in particular has been a GM that will do anything logical or otherwise to chase a player he creates a special interest in

signed,
Quincy

Seriously, unless the top pick is a QB or maybe a LT, a team like Miami should seriously think about trading out of that pick and get multi picks and a starter or two in the process.

[flames_1987]

Been away all week, and havn't got the chance to comment on last sundays gut wrenching loss against the Chargers. The Colts got a ton of calls from the zebras and just couldn't find a way to put the Chargers away. I thought Peyton played a hell of a game, and did almost everything he could to help the Colts win. It was very obvious how much the Colts missed having Freeny in those 3rd and long for the Chargers. They had absolutley no pressure, so hopefully Dwight is back and healthy.

This offseason could mark the end for Tony Dungy in the NFL and one of my all time favorite player/coach to ever be involved in the game. Tony has been an amazing coach but more then that, an amazing person. For anyone who got a chance to read his book you know what a great human being this man is.

[Trojan97]

Julius Jones is a free agent anyways and won't be back in Dallas. They already ended that saga by finally making Marion Barber the starter for their playoff game.

I really don't see them getting McFadden. They will be a VERY dangerous football team if they can have a good draft this year tho.

[burn_baby_burn]

According to the Kansas City Star, Chiefs owner Clark Hunt didn't fire Carl Peterson because he believes in Herm Edwards. Hunt knew full well that if he hired a new GM, he would fire Herm Edwards and hire his own coach.

Clark did say that the one thing he believes very strongly in. Is developing a franchise QB. That is one thing the Chiefs havn't even tried to do in the 18 years that Carl Peterson has been the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs.

[Clever_Iggy]

As a Raiders fan I've been dying since 2002. We shipped out John Gruden and that was the beginning of the end. Since 2002 our first round draft picks have been:

2002 #17 - Phillip Buchanon (CB) - softest CB in the league. Sent to Houston.

2002 #23 (from TB for Gruden) - Napoleon Harris (LB) - sent to the Vikings for Moss. No longer with the Vikings (I believe).

2003 #31 Nnamdi Asomugha (CB) - great CB. Took time to develop but a good pick.

2003 #32 (from TB for Gruden) - Tyler Brayton (DE) - part time player - shifted to a hybrid LB position for awhile. I dont think he'll be back this year.

2004 #2 - Robert Gallery (OT) - brutal. Moved to guard because he's too slow to play OT. Probably wouldnt be with the team if it wasnt for his massive rookie contract. Set the team back at least a couple seasons.

2005 #23 (originally had the #7 pick but traded for Moss... ugh)- Fabian Washington (CB) - part time starter. Decent.

2006 #7 - Michael Huff (SS) - became a starter this year, but we had a chance to address our QB needs with Leinart/Cutler available. A good pick, but not the right pick... which leads us to:

2007 #1 - JaMarcus Russell (QB) - Skeletor was mesmerized by Russells ability to throw a ball 120 yards while lying on his back. A big arm, above average mobility and a big body. Tools to be a successful QB, but Im not holding my breath. If we didnt screw up 2006, we could have looked to trade down to fill more holes or blown the pick on another OT.

With Sapp retiring and us actually holding onto a coach for more than a season (dont get me started on Art Shell), there are lots of changes in Raider land. D-Coordinator Rob Ryan was retained despite Lane Kiffen's objection (and the Raiders finishing 22nd in total defense). The offense is going to be going through growing pains with Russel getting the ball from the start but at least this year we are definitely in the rebuilding mode (not hanging on with Gannon, Culpepper, Brooks, etc...). Porter (WR) is finally going to be let go (about 3 seasons overdue) but that leave a huge hole at WR... which may be where we're looking in this years draft with the #3 or #4 pick. Our defense is good in the secondary (it better be with the number of draft picks we're spent back there) and at linebacker (our strongest position) but very weak on the defensive line (a rejuvinated Sapp was great along with Burgess... we need more though).

Second year of the Kiffen experiment. First year of the Russell experiment (I purposely avoided the use of the word "era" because, I dont buy it yet). The Raiders have a plan... I think.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

D-Coordinator Rob Ryan was retained despite Lane Kiffen's objection

Thats a huge problem. A coach should be allowed to hire his own staff. If they arn't on the same page now. How will things get any better?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Thats a huge problem. A coach should be allowed to hire his own staff. If they arn't on the same page now. How will things get any better?

Believe me, youre preaching to the choir. Gruden was let go (or essentially traded) because he wanted more control of operations and Skeletor thinks it's still the 1980s and you can win by ramming the ball between tackles and airing it out for 40+ yards. Davis hated the west coast offense that Gruden ran.

After that you have bungled picks (picks against the head coach's advice) and a parade of head coaches (Callahan, Turner, Shell, Kiffen) and numerous coordinators.

Getting Kiffen was supposed to be "committing to an offensive philosophy" and hiring someone that wasnt intended to be a stop gap (see Turner and Shell). But when you hamstring a head coach by continuing to dictate personnel decisions and coordinator decisions, you cant expect success. This is why Kiffen was the 4th or 5th choice for the position because Davis was turned down other candidates. Not to mention we missed out on Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy because Davis wanted to go "old school" and hire Art Shell and his 87 year old offensive coordinator who was running a bed in breakfast in Idaho. /end rant.

Bottom line - until Davis dies or abdicates the throne to a new age GM/way of thinking, the Raiders are destined for mediocracy.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I think Napoleon Harris actually wound up in KC. He was a nice piece in that trade at the time, but I think he just lost it when he didn't have purple on anymore. (Northwestern..Minnesota).

I love to hate the Raiders, but one thing I noticed this year under Kiffin is how hard they played. That's something that has not been there the last several seasons IMO.

[Flames in 07]

I'm a long standing member of the Raider Hater club.

I think Davis will get in the way of any success they could have. He takes too much of an interest in day to day football activities.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I think Napoleon Harris actually wound up in KC.

Yeah they signed him as a FA last season. Let Kawika Mitchel go to the Giants and signed Harris and Donnie Edwards.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I love to hate the Raiders, but one thing I noticed this year under Kiffin is how hard they played. That's something that has not been there the last several seasons IMO.

They did play hard(er) last season which was a nice change. With Moss, Porter and the majority of the offense dogging it the past couple seasons (especially under the watchful eye, er, blank stare of Art Shell), some effort was appreciated.

We need major help on offense (other than the QB position) and our d-line is in need of a major facelift. With either the #3 or #4 pick some big names available are: McFadden, Long (OT - Michigan), Long (DE - Virginia) who is the son of Howie Long, Dorsey (DT - LSU), or Sweed (WR - Texas).

Rumor has it that Jerry Jones would love to move up to get McFadden (a fellow Razorback) which might be what the Raiders need - a package of players to fill lots of holes (the Cowboys also have the #22 (from Cleveland - Quinn deal) and #29 overall picks). I wouldnt be excited about Jones or Barber coming as part of the trade, but we'll see. I dont think the Cowboys could part with enough roster players for the Raiders to justify dropping from #3/4 to #22 and/or #29... maybe the Cowboys will have to take two steps to get up that high.

There could be interest from teams wanting to move up to take Matt Ryan (QB - BC) before Atlanta can draft him (assuming the Raiders get the #3 pick). Perhaps Baltimore (#8 overall) if they favor Ryan over Brohm (Louisville) or the Bears (#14) who are definitely in need of a future QB. Right now the QB order looks to be Ryan, Brohm and Woodson (Kentucky).

An interesting development would be if the Raiders could sign UFA DT - Albert Hainsworth in the offseason. He was a monster last year and despite his spotty record (the head stomp), he showed that he had changed this past season. That would shore up our D-line and allow us to either draft McFadden, Long (OT) or trade down. I would love to draft Howie's son, but our offense needs a threat and we're losing WR and potentially all of our RBs.

Enough about me though. What about some other teams' futures?

[burn_baby_burn]

One mock draft I have seen has the Chiefs taking Brohm with the fifth pick. I don't get a chance to watch a lot of college football. But I would be suspicious of the Chiefs taking a QB unless he is that once in a lifetime franchise QB. With Carl Petersons track record of poor drafts during the Vermeil era. Maybe Croyle is just all hype (I know he hasn't done a thing, but the Chiefs act like he is going to be great) and if Brohm is the real deal they will draft him. Although Edwards has stated that he doesn't think that any of the QB's in this draft are sure fire franchise QB's.

I really hope they take Long at OT. God knows they need to solidify that line to give Croyle even half a chance at becoming successful. Not to mention opening holes for LJ or Kolby Smith. Will he be there by the fifth pick?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

One mock draft I have seen has the Chiefs taking Brohm with the fifth pick. I don't get a chance to watch a lot of college football. But I would be suspicious of the Chiefs taking a QB unless he is that once in a lifetime franchise QB. With Carl Petersons track record of poor drafts during the Vermeil era. Maybe Croyle is just all hype (I know he hasn't done a thing, but the Chiefs act like he is going to be great) and if Brohm is the real deal they will draft him. Although Edwards has stated that he doesn't think that any of the QB's in this draft are sure fire franchise QB's.

I really hope they take Long at OT. God knows they need to solidify that line to give Croyle even half a chance at becoming successful. Not to mention opening holes for LJ or Kolby Smith. Will he be there by the fifth pick?

I dont see Matt Ryan or Brohm being world beaters... but who the heck knows. Alex Smith went first overall because it was a weak draft.

Regardless, I dont think the Chiefs problem is their QB position when the o-line is in such bad shape. A OT would be great. Im a little gun shy when i comes to O-lineman from the Big 10. Robert Gallery (Iowa) was the "safest pick" in the 2004 draft and he's been a bust for the Raiders. There is truth to the fact that the Big 10 is a slow conference... I worry about players coming out of there now. However, Long is a huge man and played very well in Michigan this year (the biggest reason for the UM turn around, more than Hart).

At #5 though, it could be tough. The Dolphins, Rams, Raiders and Falcons all pick before the Chiefs and you could argue that all 4 could use a bookend OT like long. I could see the Rams really liking him because he would be paired with Pace and would eventually replace him down the road... this would add to their run offense and provide good protection for the pass game. With the Dolphins having more holes than any team in the league (WR, RB, DL, OL, CB, LB) I could see Parcells getting better value by trading down and filling holes.

I would also like to see my Raiders take Long (OT)... but we have no weapons on offense, i think there are more pressing needs.

[burn_baby_burn]

I think the Chiefs still have a chance at drafting 4th overall. Isn't there some sort of coin flip thing supposed to happen with the Chiefs and Raiders?

[Flames in 07]

I think they have already determined that the Raiders will be picking ahead of the Cheifs

Here's what I recall hearing:
it's a three way coin flip where the falcons and raiders flip, if the falcons win then it is:
3: Falcons
4: Raiders
5: Cheifs

If the raiders win then the raiders and cheifs flip for #4

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I think the Chiefs still have a chance at drafting 4th overall. Isn't there some sort of coin flip thing supposed to happen with the Chiefs and Raiders?

There's a 3 way tie between the Raiders, Falcons and Chiefs however, due to the tie breaker rules:

- Oakland can draft either #3 or #4 but no worse than 4
- the Chiefs can draft either #4 or #5 but no better than 4
- the Falcons can draft either #3, #4 or #5.

So there are several scenarios but the Chiefs would have to win two coin flips in a row to move up from #5 to #4... The Raiders and Falcons will flip a coin first - if the Falcons win, its Falcons, Raiders, Chiefs. If the Raiders win, the Falcons and the Chiefs flip a coin to determine #4 and #5.

[burn_baby_burn]

Going from memory. Chiefs and Raiders are both 4-12. Next tie breakere is divisional record or Conferance Record. Chiefs only won two division games vs SD and Oakland both on the road. Only other win in the Conferance came against the Bengals. Raiders beat the Chiefs, Broncos and I can't remember who else.