Any High School English Teachers Out There? Need a little help with Hamlet essay

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by iggypop

Oh the good old 5 paragrapgh paper. I havent read your paper and don't plan to, but i copied and pasted your 2rd paragragh (1st body paragraph) into word, its 2 pages long double spaced! Thats ridiculous man. No paragragh sould be longer than 3/4 of a page. Period. Split your body paragraphs into at least 2 each. Not only will it read a lot better, but your teacher will be happy that your not using the cookie cutter 5 paragraph model.

Paragraphs should be used whenever you change from one topic to another. There is no pre-defined length. They can be as long as several pages, or as short as a single word, so long as they are covering the same topic throughout.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Thanks a lot Flashpoint! I really appreciate it, I owe you one. Yeah, I didn't really have time to read over and find the grammatical mistakes because I had to run out and do some stuff today. I've read over it a bunch of times with most of your suggestions implemented, and it reads much easier now I think.

And for those concerned about plagiarism,these changes are grammatical and aren't at all changing the idea of the essay. Plus, if someone tried to steal the essay the teacher would laugh at them because we had to turn in what our exact thesis in the essay would be, so people couldn't do things like go on the internet and steal one. Also I'm going to show her and tell her that I posted it and asked for advice on it, just in case some jackass does try to turn it in.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

Thanks a lot Flashpoint! I really appreciate it, I owe you one. Yeah, I didn't really have time to read over and find the grammatical mistakes because I had to run out and do some stuff today. I've read over it a bunch of times with most of your suggestions implemented, and it reads much easier now I think.

And for those concerned about plagiarism,these changes are grammatical and aren't at all changing the idea of the essay. Plus, if someone tried to steal the essay the teacher would laugh at them because we had to turn in what our exact thesis in the essay would be, so people couldn't do things like go on the internet and steal one. Also I'm going to show her and tell her that I posted it and asked for advice on it, just in case some jackass does try to turn it in.

Hope you get a good grade buddy and merry Christmas.

[llama64]

I'm a little late to the party, but I thought I'd put in a general comment about essay writing. I actually kinda miss writing them :P

Can't say much about the subject, but for general essay layout you may want to look at re-organizing things.

The key to writing an essay (especially one based on a thesis) is to make it easily accessible and readable. The following structure helps enormously:

Introduction: Explain the purpose of the paper and a brief summation of the argument you a re going to make.

Paragraph: one for each point in support of your thesis.
- State the point
- Provide evidence backing up your point
- explain how the evidence applies to your point and the thesis
- conclude the point and lead into the next one

Conclusion: tie up any loose ends, restate your thesis and explain how all your points have now proven it true.

It helps to think of each middle paragraph as a sort of mini essay.

Oh, and remove any extra words that are not needed. For example:
" In stark contrast to Hamlet’s character there is Laertes."

Stark doesn't add anything to the sentence. And I'd rework that sentence anyways:
"Laertes provides a contrast to Hamlet's melancholic and brooding behaviour."

Another one from your second paragraph:
"His character is effectively summed up in a quote"

"His character is described during his soliloquy...."

And never write a paper without a basic framework. Some people like free flow writing, but when doing an argumentative essay you'll end up doing more work revising it. Using this format, I found I could spit out a 3000 word essay in about 2-3 hours of pure writing time (research not included).

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by llama64

I'm a little late to the party, but I thought I'd put in a general comment about essay writing. I actually kinda miss writing them :P

Can't say much about the subject, but for general essay layout you may want to look at re-organizing things.

The key to writing an essay (especially one based on a thesis) is to make it easily accessible and readable. The following structure helps enormously:

Introduction: Explain the purpose of the paper and a brief summation of the argument you a re going to make.

Paragraph: one for each point in support of your thesis.
- State the point
- Provide evidence backing up your point
- explain how the evidence applies to your point and the thesis
- conclude the point and lead into the next one

Conclusion: tie up any loose ends, restate your thesis and explain how all your points have now proven it true.

It helps to think of each middle paragraph as a sort of mini essay.

Oh, and remove any extra words that are not needed. For example:
" In stark contrast to Hamlet’s character there is Laertes."

Stark doesn't add anything to the sentence. And I'd rework that sentence anyways:
"Laertes provides a contrast to Hamlet's melancholic and brooding behaviour."

Another one from your second paragraph:
"His character is effectively summed up in a quote"

"His character is described during his soliloquy...."

And never write a paper without a basic framework. Some people like free flow writing, but when doing an argumentative essay you'll end up doing more work revising it. Using this format, I found I could spit out a 3000 word essay in about 2-3 hours of pure writing time (research not included).

Oh, I wish I had this last night haha, I turned it in today. Everyone elses were about a page longer than mine, but when I read a few of them they had just filled them with fluff to draw it out, so I'm not too worried. But thanks for the advice, I'm writing my diploma in a few weeks and these are some great points, should help quite a bit

[SarichFan]

I'm in ur Puter

<insert cat>

Steelin ur essays

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

The play Hamlet,
Put Hamlet in quotes. It's a proper name of a work of literature.

Actually, it should be italicised as it is a major work. Quotation marks are reserved for titles of shorter works such as poems, short stories, and songs.

[kipperiggy]

According to my English professor, as soon as you get somebody else to read your essay and suggest anything, it's plagarism, unless it's something such as "you have many comma rule errors" and you go through and try and find them yourself. I think. I don't know, I tend to block that class out of my memory as soon as I'm out of it.


A play or novel should be underlined and a short story or poem title should be in the quotes. I haven't read the rest of the essay though so that's the only suggestion I have.

Edit: Still haven't read the essay but just remember to watch for slang language, contractions, and comma splices, my professor doesn't stop harping about any of those things.

[Temporary_User]

Originally Posted by llama64

Introduction: Explain the purpose of the paper and a brief summation of the argument you a re going to make.

Paragraph: one for each point in support of your thesis.
- State the point
- Provide evidence backing up your point
- explain how the evidence applies to your point and the thesis
- conclude the point and lead into the next one

Conclusion: tie up any loose ends, restate your thesis and explain how all your points have now proven it true.

It helps to think of each middle paragraph as a sort of mini essay.

Good points overall, except the bolded ones. Granted all professors are different, but I've been told not to go back and restate how this applies to the thesis. It all needs to tie in to your original thesis, but nce you've stated the point and provided backup to that, that should be enough. Leave the concluding to your final conclusion paragraph.
It gets to be a little mundane if you are constantly refering back over things.

i.e. Dogs are a strong animal, and can take any cat in a fight. A report done by John smith in 2000 shows that a typical dog weighs 200 lbs, compared to a 50lbs. for a typical cat. Also reports dating from 1975 - 1999, show that in all instances of dog vs. cat attacks the dog has came on top. As such, a dog can take on any cat in a fight.

- I know this is stupid and short, but essentially the last sentance could be taken out. expand that to a larger essay, and the last paragraph of this specific point could be taken out.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Good points overall, except the bolded ones. Granted all professors are different, but I've been told not to go back and restate how this applies to the thesis. It all needs to tie in to your original thesis, but nce you've stated the point and provided backup to that, that should be enough. Leave the concluding to your final conclusion paragraph.
It gets to be a little mundane if you are constantly refering back over things.

i.e. Dogs are a strong animal, and can take any cat in a fight. A report done by John smith in 2000 shows that a typical dog weighs 200 lbs, compared to a 50lbs. for a typical cat. Also reports dating from 1975 - 1999, show that in all instances of dog vs. cat attacks the dog has came on top. As such, a dog can take on any cat in a fight.

- I know this is stupid and short, but essentially the last sentance could be taken out. expand that to a larger essay, and the last paragraph of this specific point could be taken out.

Well put. Those two rules are very loose and vary according to writing style and paper subject. Most of the time, the point of the paragraph is worded so that it implicitly supports the paper's original thesis. Re-iterating it is usually done for effect or emphasis.

I agree fully though. If you're revisiting the same thing over and over, it will sabotage the paper more then support it.

KipperIggy:

Your professor hasn't a clue what they are talking about. When I review someone's paper and offer suggestions, I am, by default, giving them permission to use them to enhance their paper. That negates the plagiarism since I have given my accent.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

According to my English professor, as soon as you get somebody else to read your essay and suggest anything, it's plagarism, unless it's something such as "you have many comma rule errors" and you go through and try and find them yourself. I think. I don't know, I tend to block that class out of my memory as soon as I'm out of it.


A play or novel should be underlined and a short story or poem title should be in the quotes. I haven't read the rest of the essay though so that's the only suggestion I have.

Edit: Still haven't read the essay but just remember to watch for slang language, contractions, and comma splices, my professor doesn't stop harping about any of those things.

Your English professor is wrong. Plagiarism is the use of another's work as if it is your own, without proper citation. Here's a helpful definition:

All of the following are considered plagiarism:

• turning in someone else's work as your own
• copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
• failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
• giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
• changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
• copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether you give credit or not (see our section on "fair use" rules)

Obviously, proofreading and editing are just part of the writing process, but so long as the ideas are yours, you're on safe ground. I know whereof I speak, being a college English teacher myself.

As for those who are concerned about plagiarism in the case of this paper--I guarantee you that if you do a quick search you'll find the internet already full of papers comparing Hamlet to Laertes and Fortinbras. It's a very basic Hamlet assignment. I try never to assign "standard" readings of these texts to my students. If the OP's HS English teacher thinks looking at a thesis statement in advance makes this work impossible to plagiarize, he's kidding himself. If he wants to prevent plagiarism, he needs to come up with a more novel assignment.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

According to my English professor, as soon as you get somebody else to read your essay and suggest anything, it's plagarism, unless it's something such as "you have many comma rule errors" and you go through and try and find them yourself. I think. I don't know, I tend to block that class out of my memory as soon as I'm out of it.

I'm going to second this just for the hell of it.

Your professor is wrong.

Going by that measure, using a spellcheck or those annoying Word grammar recommendations is plagiarism as well.

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by llama64

Your professor hasn't a clue what they are talking about. When I review someone's paper and offer suggestions, I am, by default, giving them permission to use them to enhance their paper. That negates the plagiarism since I have given my accent.

Yeah, that's great if you end up in the Works Cited page. If not...plagiarism!

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

If the OP's HS English teacher thinks looking at a thesis statement in advance makes this work impossible to plagiarize, he's kidding himself. If he wants to prevent plagiarism, he needs to come up with a more novel assignment.

Well, the assignment was basically do whatever you want as long as you cover a theme of the play and stuff, which I suppose is a win win for the teacher because its easy to assign and opens the door to creativity. So I could have picked a much more creative thesis (and project idea) but couldn't be bothered. Like this other person wrote this essay on how self-respect played a role in Hamlet's response to injustice. I got an 80% by the way, which is exactly the minimum grade I was shooting for. Mission accomplished, major thanks to all those who helped!

[icarus]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

A play or novel should be underlined

Well, if he is writing it out by hand or using a typewriter, yes. But I think he is probably going to print it off the computer so italics are the way to go.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

exactly the minimum grade I was shooting for.

That's the spirit!

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by icarus

That's the spirit!

Well obviously I was aiming for one better, but I was hoping for at least an 80, which is actually not a low expectation because this teacher is a really hard marker.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

Yeah, that's great if you end up in the Works Cited page. If not...plagiarism!

I don't want to be a dink, but that's just not true. Editing and proofreading help isn't plagiarism. If it were, 99% of academic writing, journal articles, newspaper columns, novels and plays would be plagiarized.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

Well, the assignment was basically do whatever you want as long as you cover a theme of the play and stuff, which I suppose is a win win for the teacher because its easy to assign and opens the door to creativity. So I could have picked a much more creative thesis (and project idea) but couldn't be bothered. Like this other person wrote this essay on how self-respect played a role in Hamlet's response to injustice. I got an 80% by the way, which is exactly the minimum grade I was shooting for. Mission accomplished, major thanks to all those who helped!

When you're in University you'll learn that an "open-ended" assignment is teacher-code for "I couldn't be bothered to write a detailed assignment sheet."

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I don't want to be a dink, but that's just not true. Editing and proofreading help isn't plagiarism. If it were, 99% of academic writing, journal articles, newspaper columns, novels and plays would be plagiarized.

I'm not sure, but I *think* he/she was being sarcastic. /shrug.

Either way, you're right